Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject:
Thanks, Les. I'm hoping to get the switch fixed this weekend. I also need to repair the trip meter and odometer on Nineteen's 944. It's a common problem with these cars. The cause is a nylon or plastic gear that breaks, especially if the reset is activated while the car is moving.
Anyway, a new challenge has arisen with the Bonneville. I don't know if the symptoms are related or not but believe it is possible.
1. The bike has gotten harder to start. While it has started on the first or second kick up until now, it took seven kicks yesterday. Sometimes it would almost start but would die.
2. The bike died twice while Sixteen was riding it, both times when he was waiting at a traffic light to turn left with the left blinker activated.
3. All lights on the bike brighten or dim in direct proportion to the RPMs of the engine, the higher the revs, the brighter the lights.
4. On the way home after band practice last night, Sixteen switched to the high beam and it went out. I've not checked it yet but feel confident I'll find a melted high-beam filament.
5. The bike no longer idles smoothly.
I'd be most grateful for any hints. I've checked the '79-on manual and, frankly, don't understand the part about fault finding with the charging system.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
3. All lights on the bike brighten or dim in direct proportion to the RPMs of the engine, the higher the revs, the brighter the lights.
4. On the way home after band practice last night, Sixteen switched to the high beam and it went out. I've not checked it yet but feel confident I'll find a melted high-beam filament.
That could point to it being a voltage regulation problem, - maybe the Zener diode is no longer functioning correctly? I presume that your '79 model has the three-phase lower output version RM24 alternator with the single Zener diode?
If this is the case, and the voltage keeps rising with the revs, then the RITA box is going to be damaged if the voltage is going over 16V, so I'd try to find the problem before using the bike again if possible?
It maybe worth considering changing over to a modern 3-phase regulator/rectifier unit, and removing the old Zener and rectifier, as those original electronic parts are now rather old, and they've gone through a reasonably long period of inactivity so they could be giving up, now they've been put back into service again?
Tulsaalva wrote:
I've checked the '79-on manual and, frankly, don't understand the part about fault finding with the charging system.
I'd check the system voltage, and if it is outside the limits given in the manual then I would concentrate on checking/eliminating the Zener first?
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:14 am Post subject:
L.A.B. wrote:
Tulsaalva wrote:
3. All lights on the bike brighten or dim in direct proportion to the RPMs of the engine, the higher the revs, the brighter the lights.
4. On the way home after band practice last night, Sixteen switched to the high beam and it went out. I've not checked it yet but feel confident I'll find a melted high-beam filament.
That could point to it being a voltage regulation problem, - maybe the Zener diode is no longer functioning correctly? I presume that your '79 model has the three-phase lower output version RM24 alternator with the single Zener diode?
If this is the case, and the voltage keeps rising with the revs, then the RITA box is going to be damaged if the voltage is going over 16V, so I'd try to find the problem before using the bike again if possible?
It maybe worth considering changing over to a modern 3-phase regulator/rectifier unit, and removing the old Zener and rectifier, as those original electronic parts are now rather old, and they've gone through a reasonably long period of inactivity so they could be giving up, now they've been put back into service again?
Tulsaalva wrote:
I've checked the '79-on manual and, frankly, don't understand the part about fault finding with the charging system.
I'd check the system voltage, and if it is outside the limits given in the manual then I would concentrate on checking/eliminating the Zener first?
Yes, we've parked the bike and won't ride it again until the problem is sorted out. I had realized, of course, that the regulation of the voltage is the problem.
I always lean toward updating if it is an available answer to solving a problem. How does one change over to "a modern 3-phase regulator/rectifier unit"? Is that an item I need to get from LaNelle or one of the on-line Triumph parts dealers, or would it be available at the local automotive parts store?
Since the Triumph made it home under its own power the last time it was ridden, can I assume the Rita is okay? I do have a spare, but it's as old as the one in the bike. It has never been used.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:49 am Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
I always lean toward updating if it is an available answer to solving a problem. How does one change over to "a modern 3-phase regulator/rectifier unit"? Is that an item I need to get from LaNelle or one of the on-line Triumph parts dealers, or would it be available at the local automotive parts store?
Then I suggest your best option would be to fit a Podtronics or similar unit? They should be available from most British bike parts suppliers, and fitting one is fairly straightforward = disconnect/remove the old Zener and rectifier, and connect the Podtronic unit, which will have five wires, as your alternator should be a three-phase RM24 so you need a three-phase regulator/rectifier. So there will be three box wires that connect to either one of the stator output wires, as they are all AC, and a positive wire to the battery wire, and a negative to ground, as your '79 is Neg ground.
Since the Triumph made it home under its own power the last time it was ridden, can I assume the Rita is okay? I do have a spare, but it's as old as the one in the bike. It has never been used.
Just carry on using the one that's fitted, I suppose, - but it's up to you?
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:43 am Post subject:
I exchanged emails with Bob of Podtronics who told me they don't sell to individuals and referred me to the website for a list of dealers and distributors. I recognized Domi Racer, a distributor that LaNelle buys from.
I talked with LaNelle this morning. She told me everybody likes the Podtronics piece so well she keeps one in stock. She has the single phase unit but not the three phase one. She will order one from Domi Racer.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:04 am Post subject:
Okay... The Podtronics came in and I've started installation.
It's pretty straightforward. In the case of the Zener diode, however, there is no instruction on what to do with the wires. Shall I just remove the diode and leave the wires unconnected? The Podtronics unit only uses the wires of the rectifier.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:50 am Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
Okay... The Podtronics came in and I've started installation.
Shall I just remove the diode and leave the wires unconnected?
Yes, just make sure the Zener spade connector is isolated and cannot touch to ground, but don't separate the two(?) Brown/Blue(?) connector wires from each other.
Okay... The Podtronics came in and I've started installation.
Shall I just remove the diode and leave the wires unconnected?
Yes, just make sure the Zener spade connector is isolated and cannot touch to ground, but don't separate the two(?) Brown/Blue(?) connector wires from each other.
Thanks, Les! The two wires were well insulated but just to make sure I used a closed-end rubber tube which covered them tightly and tucked it up under the frame tube.
The installation of the Podtronics unit went nicely as well. I removed the tank, side covers and air filters to afford easy working room.
I mounted the Podtronics unit on the front frame tubes just under the oil cooler, where it fit very nicely with the fins "into the wind."
The wires were all too short but I raided the '82 Porsche 924 salvage car and was able to match quite closely the colors of the Podtronics wiring, if not the Triumph's. I soldered and heat-shrink-wrapped the connections and tie-strapped the wiring to the underside of the main tube of the frame.
I was able to re-route the four wires which connected to the original rectifier to a position near the back of the tank on the left side of the frame. I connected the three yellow wires (according to Podtronics' diagram) to the Triumph wiring with spade connectors. I was lucky to find connectors which had a plastic weather guard and which fit perfectly the Triumph connectors. It seems to be a pretty-much weather proof installation.
The power wire was a bit more of a challenge. It is a female connector quite a lot larger (3/8 inch wide) than the spade connectors that I had available. However, I was able to remove the male spade connector from the Zener diode, which left a convenient hole opposite the plug-in end. I ran the stripped power wire through the hole and soldered the connections on each side of the spade, finally covering it with heat shrink-wrap. It plugged into the brown/blue wires of the rectifier like it had been made for the job. Come to think of it, I guess it was.
The ground wire was quite easy. I crossed it under the upper frame tube to the right hand side and, using a circular connector, connected it to the negative pole of the battery along with the ground wire.
The bike started and ran like a Triumph on the second kick with no fluctuation of the lights.
Thanks for recommending the Podtronics unit, Les. I think I'll probably use one on the Norton when I begin its resurrection.
Al
Last edited by Tulsaalva on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 143 Location: Anacortes, WA, USA
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject:
Al:
It has been interesting reading your saga. As a matter of interest, an old school friend of my sister lives in Slidell, LA. He had a very nice 79 Bonneville that was destroyed in Hurricane Katrina.
He recently took a wild flyer and bought, sight unseen except for photos, another 79 with only about 5000 miles from new.
He speaks very highly of an outfit in New England someplace called Frank's British Bike Barn, where he found the bike he now has. Fortunately, Slidell evaded the worst of Gustav and Ike and everything's OK.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:42 am Post subject:
Thanks for the nice comment, Frank. I've printed a number of the posts on this thread and added the pages to my service manual. It's my hope that this thread may help someone else in a future Bonneville resurrection.
I still have the right turn signals to sort out. I've had the switch apart, where I found a mud-dobber's nest. I cleaned that out with contact cleaner and found no other obvious problems. Unfortunately, I was so sure the insect's nest was the problem that I didn't do any further investigation. The right signals still don't work.
I found the problem with the speedometer. It was in the drive. I need to get that problem on the project list, then the bike will be finished.
The bike seems to be quite reliable now and Sixteen is in love with it again, so I guess the idea of selling it (expressed above) is off the table. He uses hand signals and seems to get along just fine. One nice thing about hand signals is that one can't leave them on unintentionally.
I had planned to start on the Commando LR when the Triumph got to this point but I recently rescued an '87 Porsche 944 five speed from a field and have been cleaning that up. I must have pulled the equivalent of a bale of grass hay out of the nooks and crannies so far!
I've bought the parts to replace the hoses, belts, pulleys, brakes (stainless steel lines, of course), and have had the radiator cleaned and rodded. I've replaced the pesky odometer gear and pretty-much gotten the car ready to paint gold pearl white.
As I mentioned above, Sixteen is enrolled in a motorcycle mechanics' course at Tulsa Technical College. He has talked to his instructor about using the Norton for his class project. The instructor was enthusiastic but has since fallen ill and not been in class for a week. If this comes to pass, perhaps Sixteen can get on here and write of the project as it progresses.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Rough Running
Okay, folks, another puzzler has reared it's head. The bonneville has started to run poorly. It starts readily if the throttle is held slightly open but will not run smoothly nor will it idle.
In riding the bike, it seemed like fuel starvation might be the problem. Suspecting the fuel lines might have been fouled with rust or paint chips left from twenty-five years of sitting empty, I drained the tank. It was quite clean inside.
In checking out the petcocks, I found them quite clean, including the metal screen which encloses the upright pipe. But here's the interesting thing: I blew compressed air into the petcocks from the bottom, the side which connects eventually to the carbs.
The left petcock will flow air only when set to "On," not to "Res."
The right petcock will flow air only when set to "Res." not to "On."
Neither will flow air when set to "Off." That's good, right?
I went to LaNelle's shop. She has after-market replacement petcocks in stock which are pretty chrome and cost about $25.00. The negative side is that they only have an "On" and an "Off" position, no "Res." Another is available from the same company with all three at the same price. I placed an order for the three-way switched ones.
I also bought two in-line fuel filters and will install them just for insurance, although there's no indication of any foreign matter in the fuel system.
What's going on???
Al
Last edited by Tulsaalva on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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At the end of 1967 the Norton Commando was announced.
The Norton Commando was greeted with a certain amount of scepticism because on first sight the commando appeared to comprise of the old Norton Dominator twin cylinder engine mounted at an inclined angle in a set of new cylinder parts.
It was not realized that the new Norton Commando Isolastic method of engine suspension damped out all engine vibration and produced a machine which had uncanny smoothness for a vertical twin. In due course the critics were silenced and the Norton Commando had the distinction of being regarded as the first of todays so called superbikes. There can be little doubt that the original design concept of the Norton Commando has proved correct, since comparatively few modifications of any real consequence have been made since production commenced during 1968.
Now nearly 40 years later Norton Commando riders like us are a breed of our own, and as far as we are concerned its still more fun to go for a blat on the old Norton Commando, and fast. As a Norton Commando owner and enthusiast, my goal here is to promote and give credit to those who keep the Norton name going.
It is more deserving to give credit to the Commando itself, for after all these years it continues to be respected. The original Commando designers like John Favill are those who deserve the credit for developing this incredible motorcycle.
The Norton Commando Roadster and Interstate of the late seventies, never died. Although the Norton Villiers factory dispersed the tradition lived on. Today Kenny Dreer in the USA is developing the new 952 CC Norton. What a great looking bike this is, and its engineering is still based on the original layout. It will be interesting to see how the new 952CC Norton does in todays tough motorcycle market. One thing is for sure, I would own one if I could afford it.
