Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject:
After changing the plugs for the proper Champions the bike started on the first kick and Sixteen rode off to work, a few minutes later than he would have liked. I thought the bike wasn't running as smoothly as it should have done as he headed down the street, but he didn't stop. Since there was no telephone call from him, I'm guessing he made it okay. The engine may have not been warmed up enough to sound really smooth. I may drop by the convenience store where he works this afternoon and ask how the bike ran.
The tachometer had stopped working. Do you reckon I disconnected something in my efforts?
There is no resistance at all in both spark plug wires. The ohm meter reads ".000."
With one lead on the top of the plug and the other on the cylinder head, the ohm meter read 1.00 with the new Champions installed.
There is no continuity between any of the wire connections and the canister of the coils.
I think I had nothing more than a failed or fouled sparking plug.
Many, many thanks, Les, for the guidance!
By the way, in the factory manual, in the section on Sparking Plugs, one can read that torque is important. One should look under general data for the proper torque values. However, there is no value for sparking plugs listed there.
I checked the BMW manual. The plugs are the same thread and reach, and torque from 15.5 to 20 foot pounds is recommended. I chose 18 for the Triumph but would really like to use the value recommended by Triumph.
I wonder if I could find an Owner's Manual for the T140D?
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
The tachometer had stopped working. Do you reckon I disconnected something in my efforts?
Either (1) The cable is broken? (2) the tacho unit is not functioning for some reason? (3) the drive box isn't driving the cable?
Tulsaalva wrote:
There is no resistance at all in both spark plug wires. The ohm meter reads ".000."
By saying "spark plug wires" if that includes the plug caps, then they will be non-resistor type? But it doesn't matter with the Rita if they have resistors or not, the ignition system will be producing some TV/radio interference (RFI) without resistors.
Tulsaalva wrote:
I think I had nothing more than a failed or fouled sparking plug.
That was my thinking, as the engine appeared to quit fairly rapidly, many D & E owners being unaware that their parallel head models use the hotter N5 plug. But if the problem re-occurs then change the coil/wire/cap.
Tulsaalva wrote:
By the way, in the factory manual, in the section on Sparking Plugs, one can read that torque is important. One should look under general data for the proper torque values. However, there is no value for sparking plugs listed there.
I'm not sure there ever was a recommended spark plug torque figure?
Tulsaalva wrote:
I wonder if I could find an Owner's Manual for the T140D?
It should be easy to get a copy of the later '79-on manual, which contains information more relevant to your D model?
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:06 am Post subject:
L.A.B. wrote:
Either (1) The cable is broken? (2) the tacho unit is not functioning for some reason? (3) the drive box isn't driving the cable?
Of course! I was thinking the tach would be electronic... "Of all the things I've ever lost, I think I miss my mind the most."
Quote:
By saying "spark plug wires" if that includes the plug caps, then they will be non-resistor type? But it doesn't matter with the Rita if they have resistors or not, the ignition system will be producing some TV/radio interference (RFI) without resistors.
Since we don't have a radio on the bike, I'll only worry about this if the neighbors complain that their TVs go haywire when Sixteen rides by.
Quote:
That was my thinking, as the engine appeared to quit fairly rapidly, many D & E owners being unaware that their parallel head models use the hotter N5 plug. But if the problem re-occurs then change the coil/wire/cap.
Sixteen said the engine became smooth after a couple of blocks and by the time he entered the main thoroughfare was running better than it ever has. He thinks it starts easier, too, but only has kicked it to life twice since the new plugs were installed. We'll keep an eye on it.
Quote:
I'm not sure there ever was a recommended spark plug torque figure?
Okay. I'll stick with 18 foot pounds, Les, unless you have another suggestion.
Quote:
It should be easy to get a copy of the later '79-on manual, which contains information more relevant to your D model?
I'll ask LaNelle if she can get one through her contacts.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:34 am Post subject:
I found an owners manual for the Bonny at Rabers and have it on the way along with a clutch kit. We're really tired of dealing with the hassle of freeing up the clutch plates. They stick if left overnight.
Nineteen doesn't ride the Triumph any more. He prefers the BMW and simply drives his 944 if Sixteen is away on it, a situation that is happening more and more. We'll see if the new clutch helps. Otherwise, it looks like we'll sell the Special and use the money to buy another BMW. Sixteen thinks he'd like a K100RS.
I prefer the R80RT, but still love the Triumph for its history and heritage, not to mention the handling and sheer fun of riding it. Still, if either of my sons wants to go somewhere and a motorcycle will do, they ride away on the BMW and the Triumph sits in the garage while the clutch plates stick more firmly, I suppose.
I'll give the new clutch a chance before making a final decision, but I'm not going to just stick the Bonneville back in storage.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:12 am Post subject:
I finally found time to fit the Triumph's new clutch plates. I finished in about half-an-hour. It's amazing how much easier a job is the second time!
Without the hassle of unsticking the clutch plates, Sixteen is now rolling the Bonneville out of the garage instead of the BMW. The bike does have it's charms!
Sixteen, a high-school Junior, is enrolled in a local technical college's motorcycle mechanics course. He attended his first class yesterday. It was all about safety in the workshop. He was sorely disappointed that he didn't get to disassemble an engine on the first day. He plans to go to college and is taking the course so he can earn more than minimum wage in part-time jobs.
Nineteen will begin classes next week at Tulsa University. He will be commuting the ten miles on the R80RT on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. On Tuesdays and Thursdays he'll need to take his guitar and amp so he'll drive his car.
I have an '85 Porsche 928S, German model with a five speed and about 100 more horsepower than the American version. The value is appreciating rapidly. It's now worth about 2.5 times what I paid for it ten years ago. Often, when I read in "Excellence" magazine about what current models are selling for, especially the rare ones, I think, 'I really should sell the 928." Then I go out and drive it. My thoughts change to "I could never replace this car. Besides, it's the nicest car I've ever owned and it's so much fun to drive!" I think the Triumph may hang around for some time on the same terms. Another BMW just wouldn't be the same.
But I do need to sort out some of the electrics. Here are a couple of peculiarities:
The turn signals still don't work, but when the switch is activated, the trouble lights flash.
The bright lights' blue indicator is on when the dims are in use and off when the brights are selected.
I'm going to look inside the headlight shell today and see if any wires are connected erroneously. Any tips?
I once had a BMW which would start and run without the key as long as both brakes were applied. It would die if the brakes were released. I found two wires inside the headlight which were plugged in wrong. Matching the colors solved the problem.
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
the trouble lights flash.
If you are referring to the console warning lights, then I'd also check the console wiring if the fault isn't found in the headlamp shell?
Tulsaalva wrote:
The bright lights' blue indicator is on when the dims are in use and off when the brights are selected.
Just a wrong connection somewhere? As the main beam warning light should connect into the main beam Blue/White wire? Or the wire connections could be wrong at the headlamp bulb?
Tulsaalva wrote:
Any tips?
Personally, I'd disconnect everything, and start reconnecting again from scratch, checking that each reconnected circuit worked as I went along.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject:
Okay. I have the electrics pretty-much sorted out. The headlight and pilot (bulb was burned out) are working. The blue warning light now only glows when the brights are on. The left turn signal works. The right doesn't.
The bulbs are good; grounds are good, and I checked continuity on the plus wires.
My bike is the "1979 Standard model" which I believe means that it is not electric start and the headlight does not come on with the ignition. There is a switch on the right handlebar offering "head" and "pilot." The headlight goes off when "Pilot" is selected but the pilot light stays on all the time. The dipper switch on the left handlebar works as it should.
The wiring diagram shows a unit labeled "BFL Flasher Unit." It shows a LGN (Light green with a brown trace) wire coming out of one end and running through a connector to the turn signal switch. It shows two white wires coming out of the other end. One runs to the front brake light switch and the other runs to the rear brake light switch.
When I first opened the headlight shell I found a round unit encased in rubber. The rubber has a loop intended to secure it to a metal clip inside the headlight shell. The rubber loop, however, is broken.
There are two yellow wires exiting the unit. Each wire runs to a "Y" connection with a male connector on one upper arm of the "Y" and a female on the other. There is something loose inside the metal can of the unit, rattling about when it is shaken. It showed no continuity. Because of that, I decided the thing is kaput.
LaNelle told me she doesn't carry them because her customers buy replacements at the auto parts store and adapt them to fit.
So off I went to the auto parts store where I found quite a list of choices. I opted for one with two blade connectors that functions on heat rather than electronically. (US$2.50) I cut the yellow wires off the old unit, crimped on two female connectors and connected them to the new flasher unit. I now have continuity from wire to wire.
I've fitted it as shown above but, of course, only have one wire coming from each terminal on the flasher unit. I could only connect it to one brake light switch. But the left turn signal works so I'm enthusiastic that I'm on the right track!
Did I buy the wrong flasher unit? I could have gotten one with three blade fasteners.
Why, pray tell, is the unit to be connected to the two brake light switches?
Should I simply splice another lead onto one end in order to enable connection to both brake light switches?
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:33 am Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
The wiring diagram shows a unit labeled "BFL Flasher Unit."
8FL?
Tulsaalva wrote:
It shows a LGN (Light green with a brown trace) wire coming out of one end and running through a connector to the turn signal switch. It shows two white wires coming out of the other end.
Yes, that's correct, please read on.....
Tulsaalva wrote:
One runs to the front brake light switch and the other runs to the rear brake light switch.
____________________________
Why, pray tell, is the unit to be connected to the two brake light switches?
____________________________
Should I simply splice another lead onto one end in order to enable connection to both brake light switches?
White is the main power supply wire from the ignition switch, so the flasher unit doesn't rely on any connection to the brake light switches in order to function, they simply all get fed from the same power supply = the white wire.
Tulsaalva wrote:
When I first opened the headlight shell I found a round unit encased in rubber.
That is probably a common aftermarket replacement unit by the sound of it, as the 8FL is a small rectangular unit?
Tulsaalva wrote:
Did I buy the wrong flasher unit? I could have gotten one with three blade fasteners.
= No.
The original T140 flasher circuitry was designed as a 2 blade flasher unit system.
You could modify it to work with a three blade flasher unit, but for simplicity's sake I recommend you keep the two blade setup, as there's absolutely nothing to be gained by converting it to a three blade setup.
Study your wiring diagram and connect the two blade unit as it shows = white - in, LGN - out to h/bar switch, and follow the left and right side flasher wiring after it exits the switch, and check all connections.
IMPORTANT
The console warning light "TURN W/L" should connect directly between the two flasher circuits (left & right = GR & GW - see wiring diag.) as the warning light does not connect to ground in the normal way.
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject:
L.A.B. wrote:
Tulsaalva wrote:
The wiring diagram shows a unit labeled "BFL Flasher Unit."
8FL
Looking closely with a magnifying glass, I believe it could be 8FL.
L.A.B. wrote:
Tulsaalva wrote:
It shows a LGN (Light green with a brown trace) wire coming out of one end and running through a connector to the turn signal switch. It shows two white wires coming out of the other end.
Yes, that's correct, please read on.....
Tulsaalva wrote:
One runs to the front brake light switch and the other runs to the rear brake light switch.
____________________________
Why, pray tell, is the unit to be connected to the two brake light switches?
____________________________
Should I simply splice another lead onto one end in order to enable connection to both brake light switches?
White is the main power supply wire from the ignition switch, so the flasher unit doesn't rely on any connection to the brake light switches in order to function, they simply all get fed from the same power supply = the white wire.
Okay. I understand that now.
Tulsaalva wrote:
When I first opened the headlight shell I found a round unit encased in rubber.
L.A.B. wrote:
That is probably a common aftermarket replacement unit by the sound of it, as the 8FL is a small rectangular unit?
I suspected the same. However, I removed the aftermarket unit entirely and removed the new flasher unit I made. The left turn signal still blinks. The right one does not.
Tulsaalva wrote:
Did I buy the wrong flasher unit? I could have gotten one with three blade fasteners.
L.A.B. wrote:
= No.
The original T140 flasher circuitry was designed as a 2 blade flasher unit system.
You could modify it to work with a three blade flasher unit, but for simplicity's sake I recommend you keep the two blade setup, as there's absolutely nothing to be gained by converting it to a three blade setup.
Study your wiring diagram and connect the two blade unit as it shows = white - in, LGN - out to h/bar switch, and follow the left and right side flasher wiring after it exits the switch, and check all connections.
I've done that. I believe all wires are connected as shown in the diagram. I've even made sure that the wires going into multiple connectors enter and exit as shown in the wiring diagram. (For example, in the upper left-hand corner of the wiring diagram there is a connector with four GR wires. One comes from the right front turn signal, and goes to the right rear turn signal. The other comes from the Right terminal on the turn signal switch and continues on to the turn signal warning light.)
I also believe the original 8FL unit is still in the circuit, almost certainly under the fuel tank or behind the air filter cover. If it were not there, surely the left turn signal would not blink as there is no longer a visible flasher unit installed. I've checked the workshop manual. I've found no mention of a flasher unit. It covers the removal of the turn signals only.
L.A.B. wrote:
IMPORTANT
The console warning light "TURN W/L" should connect directly between the two flasher circuits (left & right = GR & GW - see wiring diag.) as the warning light does not connect to ground in the normal way.
.
Yes, the warning light is so connected and works flawlessly... when the left turn signal is selected, of course.
Last edited by Tulsaalva on Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:22 pm; edited 9 times in total
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject:
Tulsaalva wrote:
I also believe the original 8FL unit is still in the circuit, almost certainly under the fuel tank or behind the air filter cover. If it were not there, surely the left turn signal would not blink as there is no longer a visible flasher unit installed. I've checked the workshop manual. I've found no mention of a flasher unit.
As I believe you are now working from the '79-on (99-7059) manual? Look at section E14 ="Removing and replacing the flasher unit"
As one signal side works but the other side does not, then the fault should be either at the handlebar switch itself, or after it, somewhere along the Green/White wire, or it could be the signal stem grounds, it would be sightly unusual to have both grounds fail together, but not impossible I suppose, but the warning lamp would also stop working as it would not be able to ground through the opposite signal circuit if there was no ground at all on the faulty side?
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject:
L.A.B. wrote:
Tulsaalva wrote:
I also believe the original 8FL unit is still in the circuit, almost certainly under the fuel tank or behind the air filter cover. If it were not there, surely the left turn signal would not blink as there is no longer a visible flasher unit installed. I've checked the workshop manual. I've found no mention of a flasher unit.
As I believe you are now working from the '79-on (99-7059) manual? Look at section E14 ="Removing and replacing the flasher unit"
As one signal side works but the other side does not, then the fault should be either at the handlebar switch itself, or after it, somewhere along the Green/White wire, or it could be the signal stem grounds, it would be sightly unusual to have both grounds fail together, but not impossible I suppose, but the warning lamp would also stop working as it would not be able to ground through the opposite signal circuit if there was no ground at all on the faulty side?
Yes, I am working from the '79-on manual. I'll check E14! Thank you, Les! I've checked the grounds on all four signal units. They show good continuity. (.000) Now, I'm headed for the garage to find that pesky 8FL unit! My guess is I'll find a loose or dirty connection. Thanks again!
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:21 am Post subject:
Well, Les, E14 led me to the flasher unit, located behind the left side cover. From there I was able to follow the flow of the electricity. Beginning at the positive terminal of the battery, it flows to (but not through) the two brake light switches, to the flasher unit, to the turn signal switch, to either the left or right turn signals (depending on which is selected) and, through the frame of the bike, back to the negative terminal of the battery. As you pointed out, the turn signal warning light is powered by a wire from each of the GR and GW wire clusters, thus enabling it to work no matter which is selected.
My guess is that both brake light switches are connected to the flasher unit for the sake of redundancy; if one fails, the other is available. Right?
I have followed the entire system with my ohm meter, checking every wire and every connection. With each part disconnected, I get continuity everywhere except between the LGN wire and the GR wire (each connect to the turn signal switch) when the right turn signals are selected. There is continuity between the LGN wire and the GW wire when the left turn signals are selected.
Therefore, I must have a broken turn signal switch. (The two blade fasteners on the turn signal flasher unit were fouled with oil and dirt but I was able to clean them thoroughly with brake cleaner.)
So now I must learn about the turn signal switch. I haven't yet read the manual about it and won't take it apart until I learn how to repair it. Must the entire cluster of switches be replaced or is it possible to either repair or replace the turn signal switch on its own?
As it is now, the bike is functional. I told Sixteen that he's free to ride it but he can only turn left. He grinned at me and stuck out his right arm, mimicking a right turn hand signal. Incidentally, he hasn't touched the BMW since the clutch plates were replaced on the Bonneville. I think the boy is a born biker!
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:42 am Post subject:
Al,
Good to hear that you have found the cause of the problem at last.
Unfortunately, you won't find any instructions in the manual about switch repair, as they were meant to be replaced if they were faulty, however they can be repaired, but you need to take them apart carefully in a well-lit area that is clean and free from clutter! As small springs, tiny metal switch contacts and ball bearings can fly out - never to be seen again!
And have a pair of young eyes and some nimble fingers handy!
Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 127 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:
It sounds a lot like fixing Porsche power window switches.
The one thing I don't have is young eyes. I do have a lighted magnifying glass that's intended for working on small objects.
I found out today that the complete switch is available through LaNelle but costs $139.95. Apparently the upper and lower halves used to be available separately but she couldn't find them in her current catalogs.
Maybe I can enlist Sixteen's young eyes and write instructions while we're doing it...
I'll let you know what we decide.
Do you have any further suggestions or warnings other than the above?
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 1848 Location: Norfolk, UK
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:
Any new replacement switch units are very likely to be pattern items (probably from Sparx).
The original switches are quite simple (OK = basic!!) things, they just have some fiddly spring-loaded parts that can fly out!
As it is the turn signal switch you want to repair, you probably won't have to remove too many parts?
So, FROM MEMORY = Inside the L/H switch unit, the turn signal switch lever is held captive on a plate fixed in position by 2 (or 3?) small cross-head screws?
Under the plate you should find a small nylon block that holds the sliding contact against the (3) fixed contacts, which is moved by the switch lever?
The block if I remember correctly, also acts as the (3 position...left-off-right) index, so contains a spring loaded ball bearing that clicks through three notches cast into the switch housing, and there could be a spring behind the sliding contact as well?
There should also be a small mica board with three wires attached (soldered) one side, and three contacts on the other, that touch the sliding contact, this is, I suspect, where you will find the problem? Either a wire will have a bad joint or be broken, or the face of one or more of the contacts could be pitted, worn, dirty or corroded?
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