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Norton Manxman

Norton Models (not Commando or P11)

Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:44 pm

annajeannette wrote: the old paint had syante in them which is not good for your heath SO forget your old type paints


RECENT type paints have isocyanates in them, which is what I think you are referring to ?
That stuff is dangerous. (In 2 pak and enamel hardner. )

Old type enamels which were oven baked didn't though - although they had lead in them, which has been banned.
Industrial enamel is still available in this neck of the woods, no nasties in it, its rather soft though,
and takes years to get any hardness to it...

Metallic paints as such, where you could see the metal flakes didn't really commonly appear until the 1960s.
Nortons and Triumph called those early 1950s paints "metallic sheen" or "polychromatic" - it had aluminium or glass in it, so finely ground it was just a powder...

Rohan
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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Norton46 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:08 am

Hi
Auctions just finished on ebay for manxman parts. One was for front forks.
This included the shrouds which appear to show a dark primer layer, a gold layer and the final blue color layer. Just thought I would add it for historical purposes.
Image
PM me if you should want a copy.

Mark

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:48 am

I've just been rubbing back a similar era Triumph tank which has a thick layer of gold OVER everything.
There is no accounting what some owners will do. !!

Is there any gold under the blue on that inner primary cover ?
I was admiring that inner primary in manxman blue on ebay the other day,
and thinking it would make a good sample for precise color matching.

Good that it went to someone who will make good use of it.
T'was sad that what appeared to be a whole bike was being broken though....

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Bernhard » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:20 am

Rohan wrote:I've just been rubbing back a similar era Triumph tank which has a thick layer of gold OVER everything.
There is no accounting what some owners will do. !!

Is there any gold under the blue on that inner primary cover ?
I was admiring that inner primary in manxman blue on ebay the other day,
and thinking it would make a good sample for precise color matching.

Good that it went to someone who will make good use of it.
T'was sad that what appeared to be a whole bike was being broken though....


Or maybe not….didn’t they spray the base colour silver to create a polychromatic blue :?:
Maybe gold undercoat was another effect :?:

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:56 am

Bernhard wrote:Or maybe not….didn’t they spray the base colour silver to create a polychromatic blue :?:
Maybe gold undercoat was another effect :?:


Anna keeps saying things like that.
But a silver (or gold) basecoat with a transparent color coat over the top is a recipe for CANDY APPLE type paints.
Some of the red Commandos had candy apple red paint - it even said so in the brochures and parts lists.
(And there were some rarer candy apple greens and (darker) blues in AMCs color palette).

But all the Manxman parts I've sighted doesn't seem to have any such basecoat at all - all the scratches and marks are just bare steel underneath - Nortons don't seem to have even used a primer for most of their paints - the enamel was just applied over clean bare steel - and they could get away with that because it was clean bare steel.

I was admiring this inner primary cover for a Manxman on ebay.
Nice example to get a perfect paint match from, with this color scanning technology they have these days.
Norton46 in another thread mentions he has acquired this cover...
Note the big scratch down low - nothing but bare steel underneath.

Be interesting to see if those forks above have the gold UNDER or OVER the blue ?
It looks like a patch of gold OVER the blue on the top yoke ?

Image

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby annajeannette » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:06 pm

Rohan wrote:
Bernhard wrote:Or maybe not….didn’t they spray the base colour silver to create a polychromatic blue :?:
Maybe gold undercoat was another effect :?:


Anna keeps saying things like that.
But a silver (or gold) basecoat with a transparent color coat over the top is a recipe for CANDY APPLE type paints.
Some of the red Commandos had candy apple red paint - it even said so in the brochures and parts lists.
(And there were some rarer candy apple greens and (darker) blues in AMCs color palette).

But all the Manxman parts I've sighted doesn't seem to have any such basecoat at all - all the scratches and marks are just bare steel underneath - Nortons don't seem to have even used a primer for most of their paints - the enamel was just applied over clean bare steel - and they could get away with that because it was clean bare steel.

I was admiring this inner primary cover for a Manxman on ebay.
Nice example to get a perfect paint match from, with this color scanning technology they have these days.
Norton46 in another thread mentions he has acquired this cover...
Note the big scratch down low - nothing but bare steel underneath.

Be interesting to see if those forks above have the gold UNDER or OVER the blue ?
It looks like a patch of gold OVER the blue on the top yoke ?

Image


Candy apple is a red metallic lacquer that's sprayed painted over a silver base coat And thank you for vindicating me has some people just do not believe what I am telling them and I did say the the Manxman has a gold base coat base coats have no gloss finish in them the same has lacquer over base known has 2k and in today's car painting world there are a number of ways of creating different effects by using different coloured base coats and lacquers and metal fake used in lacquer or sprayed on dry fakes and then clear lacquered over the paint work on the Manxman must have been expensive at why later on they went black gross it,s cheap ! But when you get this Manxman finished and running god you have a dam good bike to ride you just love it !

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby annajeannette » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:38 pm

Hello To me the Norton Manxman 650 was out there on its own! there nothing out there to compare with it and for look's, it's a really good looking motorcycle and the best handling and has good power to weight ratio, having said this there are some mods that can be made to it, like a out rigger bearing on the end of the main shaft on the gearbox this help with the snatch from the engine has the 650 has some power and the gearboxes were only designed for 30 bhp were the 650 is kicking out near 50 odd bhp and mods to the front brake has you need to stop at some time and a RM 21 Alternator that gives you 12volts 120 watts does help you to see at night , the 8 inch high bar are just right for long distant cruising you need to be at one with your motorcycle and you need a good tool roll just in case , but I have never used my one yet in the last 11 year of ownership , but it,s nice to know it there under the seat now for seat colour its bright red with white piping just like the cafe bar seats USA style a nice colour and you can keep clean with soap and water or vinyl or leather cleaner for cars seats when riding the 650 Manxman you feel like a king on his throne so happy riding and have lots of fun in the sun !!!

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:30 pm

annajeannette wrote: Candy apple is a red metallic lacquer that's sprayed painted over a silver base coat And thank you for vindicating me has some people just do not believe what I am telling them and I did say the the Manxman has a gold base coat !


Its not entirely obvious here yet Anna that that gold coat hasn't been sprayed OVER the blue !!

As mentioned above, on the top yoke it sure looks like a bit of gold has been sprayed OVER the blue..
As I mentioned too, I'm currently rubbing back a Triumph tank which some PO has sprayed a glorious shade of gold - thats sure not how they came from the factory. Lots can have happened to bike parts in the past...
(Remember that I previously sent you a pic of a Manxman painted all over in gold !!)

And, if thats really how Nortons did Manxmans in blue, why hasn't the primary cover got any trace of gold about it. ???

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby annajeannette » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:55 pm

Rohan wrote:
annajeannette wrote: Candy apple is a red metallic lacquer that's sprayed painted over a silver base coat And thank you for vindicating me has some people just do not believe what I am telling them and I did say the the Manxman has a gold base coat !


Its not entirely obvious here yet Anna that that gold coat hasn't been sprayed OVER the blue !!

As mentioned above, on the top yoke it sure looks like a bit of gold has been sprayed OVER the blue..
As I mentioned too, I'm currently rubbing back a Triumph tank which some PO has sprayed a glorious shade of gold - thats sure not how they came from the factory. Lots can have happened to bike parts in the past...
(Remember that I previously sent you a pic of a Manxman painted all over in gold !!)

And, if thats really how Nortons did Manxmans in blue, why hasn't the primary cover got any trace of gold about it. ???


Honestly, Rohan, you are a real Sceptic you can clearly see the paint work has been rubbed off not spray over you must need glasses

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:29 pm

And you must have super x-ray vision to make a judgement like that ??
Sometimes its a tough time working out what paint was above and what was below,
even with the item in your hand...

So, tell us, why doesn't the inner clutch cover shown there have ANY TRACE of gold showing ??? ??? ???

Next you'll be telling us that Triumph tanks have a coat of gold underneath !!

Image
Apologies for the slight diversion from Manxmens here...

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Bernhard » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:23 am

Now that we have established which paint colour was painted where, for one minute I was under the impression the bike was painted gold for Lady Docker, who became quite infamous as the wife of the chairman of Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) who liked everything gold from the Rolls Royce downwards :!:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norah,_Lady_Docker

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby norton bob » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:01 am

I was born in the Dockers mansion in Hampshire, not that it did me any good!. The Dockers were born too early, they would fit it with todays society , sad that their excesses helped to sink the Brit bike Industry.

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:01 pm

[quote="norton bob" The Dockers were born too early, they would fit it with todays society .[/quote]

Yes !
As mentioned here earlier somewhere, more RR are sold into China these days than the rest of the world.
And even Mr Garners new Nortons seem intended for a similar clientele, if not that exact part of the world. ?

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby Rohan » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:07 pm

Bernhard wrote:Now that we have established which paint colour was painted where,


Anna has been spreading various disinformation on Norton paints on the NOC Forum for quite some time. !
At some point, cellulose was mentioned. !!
Although the Norton brochures clearly spell out that their bikes were enamelled.

Nortons had their own enamelling tanks it must be noted.
(in Brum, not quite sure what happened in Plumstead or later with the Commandos)
There are mentions that working near the enamelling ovens (Brum) was quite a cosy job in wintertime.
They don't call it stoved enamel (=baked enamel) for nothing...
There are pics of myriads of stuff hanging on racks going into the ovens. Inc frames.

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Re: Norton Manxman

Postby qside » Thu May 11, 2017 4:11 am

I am rebuilding a manxman. Does anyone have a copy of nortons publication: PS 217 available. I have 214, but I heard that 217 is more specific to the Manxman. Any help would be appreciated. the bike came to me in boxes... assembly is a bear without some documentation. Thanks Gary

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