Welcome to the Access Norton Forum. Login as a VIP member to remove the advertising banners.


Norton Dominator 99 problems

Norton Models (not Commando or P11)

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:19 am

Now i am only hoping that RGM rec/reg has enough capacity to handle my alternator output. I sended email and asked about the specs of it, but no answer so far.

If that one doesnt work either and blews up right away, then im going to lose it.

Since they are selling it for Nortons i would assume that it can handle 120w input, its kind of stupid to sell it without telling "important" specs of the item.

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:28 am

Hello,

Never mind the RGM item, i contacted Al at AOservices and he has A Reg One that is perfectly suitable for my RM21 alternator. He also did have the MagKey that im also going take that aswell so i can ditch the relay setup.
http://www.aoservices.co.uk/index.htm#service

Atleast i hope i can buy them from AOservices, i send email but i havent got answer yet, and not sure if he is able to send it to me here Finland.

If things wont work out with AOservices soon, then i'll contact Norbsa, they seem to have also A Reg Ones and Magkeys, not sure if they are even the exactly same as AOservices, atleast same prices.
http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyelectrex.htm

Norbsa says about the A Reg One:

"These 12V regulators suit any Lucas / Miller / Wipac type alternator and replace the Zener diode and the rectifier. They can also be used when converting from 6V to 12V and come with full instructions. Very reliable & simple to install.

They are rated at 25A which is 300W and have been tested to max. output with our 200W alternator

They can be used without a battery if a Capacitor is fitted, see below. Can be wired Pos. or neg. earth

They are suitable for std. 120W & high output 200W alternators"

And AOservices says its 12V and 200w but probably its rated 300W as the Norbsa is also, but atleast 100% suitable for 200W alternators. I believe both sells same products.

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby Bernhard » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:59 am

After rereading some of your posts there is a danger that your alternator has taken so much abuse that any new, or otherwise reg/rec will not solve your problem because the alternator is knackered-don’t ask me how I know :!:

Bernhard
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:01 am
Location: Chesterfield England

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:06 am

Hello,

Well i have also small fear that my alternator would be damaged, but simple light bulb test shows that it could just be okay. Maybe now that i have time i should make good tests to the alternator to check its condition.

I cannot be sure about the alternator condition for sure unless i fit new right rec/reg.

You told me to not to ask how you know, but still i must ask.

Doesnt the alternator lose its power if it is broken somehow, charging is weak. I cant believe that it could broke the way its somehow starting to produce more voltage and amps?

Edit: Commando manual has tutorial how to test alternator with 1 ohm resistor, so when get off from work ill go get 1ohm resistor and test it out. It should not read under 9Vac at 3000rpm with the resistor.

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:21 am

Hello,

Tested out the alternator with light bulb test both ways, i did the test with H4 light bulb and with one filament bulb, same results, test would be indicating alternator is fine.

And also with 1 ohm resistor i got 6-6,5Vac at idle, while raising rpm i would say that it was more than 9Vac around 3000rpm. (I dont have tacho so its not so accurate, but according to engine sound). Indicating magnets arent weakened that much yet.

I would say that according to the light bulb test and 1ohm resistor ac readings my alternator should be fine(?)

Edit: Removed my explanation.
Last edited by KuusistoNorton on Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby Triton Thrasher » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:45 am

KuusistoNorton wrote:Hello,

Tested out the alternator with light bulb test both ways (attaching one wire to + and one to - on the bulb, and the bulb lit up and then one wire fitted to + and bulbs - fitted to engine ground, light did not lit) i did the test with H4 light bulb and with one filament bulb, same results.

And also with 1 ohm resistor i got 6-6,5Vac at idle, while raising rpm i would say that it was more than 9Vac around 3000rpm. (I dont have tacho so its not so accurate, but according to engine sound).

I would say that according to the light bulb test and 1ohm resistor ac readings my alternator should be fine(?)


Bulbs don't have + and -.
User avatar

Triton Thrasher
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:27 am
Location: Thurso, Scotland

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:48 am

Triton Thrasher wrote:
KuusistoNorton wrote:Hello,

Tested out the alternator with light bulb test both ways (attaching one wire to + and one to - on the bulb, and the bulb lit up and then one wire fitted to + and bulbs - fitted to engine ground, light did not lit) i did the test with H4 light bulb and with one filament bulb, same results.

And also with 1 ohm resistor i got 6-6,5Vac at idle, while raising rpm i would say that it was more than 9Vac around 3000rpm. (I dont have tacho so its not so accurate, but according to engine sound).

I would say that according to the light bulb test and 1ohm resistor ac readings my alternator should be fine(?)


Bulbs don't have + and -.


Well indeed, they do not, oops.

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:23 am

Hello,

Small update, the A Reg One and Magkey came today, and i am really pleased that the charging system finally works propely.

With the lighs OFF the battery charging voltage wont exceed 14,6Volts and with lights ON it was around 13,5-13,8Volts. So i am happy with that.

Also the Magkey has 4wires, two black wires and two red wires. When the key is OFF position the black wires are together (beeping with VOM) and red ones are not. When the key is ON position the black wires are no longer together and the red ones are.

So OFF position magneto cut out is grounding and battery is not connected to the circuit and when ON position the magneto is no longer grounded and battery is connected to the circuit. The magkey is just like the one i was looking for and exactly like the one i descripted with NC and NO terminals.

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby Bernhard » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:23 am

Nortoniggy wrote:Your Pb137 regulator is rated at 1.5 amps which is why it exploded. It's designed for low output battery chargers.
Ian


I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts.
I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts. You need to have taken the size of the resistors from that, anything undersize will have blown as you found out.
Glad you have found a reg/rec but are you only getting 13 odd volts when engine is revved to 2 – 3 k :?:

Bernhard
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:01 am
Location: Chesterfield England

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:33 am

Bernhard wrote:
Nortoniggy wrote:Your Pb137 regulator is rated at 1.5 amps which is why it exploded. It's designed for low output battery chargers.
Ian


I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts.
I think you have under estimated the amount of volts coming out of your alternator before any rectifier, it will be as much as 36 volts or even 72 volts. You need to have taken the size of the resistors from that, anything undersize will have blown as you found out.
Glad you have found a reg/rec but are you only getting 13 odd volts when engine is revved to 2 – 3 k :?:


Hello,

Not sure about the rpms but certainly without load it wont charge over 14,6V at any point.

I want to fit fuses also to the circuit so what size they should be? If the alternator outputs max 10A should the fuses be 10A or more? Maybe 15A?

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby Triton Thrasher » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:01 am

Fuses go in the battery lead. If you have no electric starter, put the main fuse in the battery's earth return lead.

A fuse should be of a rating that will only blow when a short circuit occurs, not when you switch on all the lights. 15A or 20A as a main fuse should be ok.
User avatar

Triton Thrasher
Posts: 1085
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:27 am
Location: Thurso, Scotland

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:11 pm

Triton Thrasher wrote:Fuses go in the battery lead. If you have no electric starter, put the main fuse in the battery's earth return lead.

A fuse should be of a rating that will only blow when a short circuit occurs, not when you switch on all the lights. 15A or 20A as a main fuse should be ok.


Hello,

There is no electric start, only lights. Im going with negative earth polarity, so battery negative lead is going to frame(ground). So you say that the main fuse for example of 15A should be fitted between battery negative terminal and frame(ground)?

Is it enough to fit only one fuse to the circuit and it will protect the whole light circuit if shorts occurs?

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby Bernhard » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:39 am

You do not as a rule fit fuses to the earth side of the electrical side of the circuit .

you could fit one main fuse, then fit lower fuses to protect different parts of the circuit, i.e. lights.

Bernhard
Posts: 2491
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:01 am
Location: Chesterfield England

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby L.A.B. » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:22 am

Bernhard wrote:You do not as a rule fit fuses to the earth side of the electrical side of the circuit.


There's no reason why the main fuse can't be fitted on the 'earth'/'return' side, as many British (and other) bikes had.
It does, in fact, make more 'electrical sense' to put the fuse on the earth side of the battery as the system is then protected right from the feed' terminal and not just from wherever the fuse happens to be.

(Example from a typical late 60's Triumph wiring diagram)
Image
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
L.A.B.
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 12529
View Photo Album - Images: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:41 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Norton Dominator 99 problems

Postby KuusistoNorton » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:43 am

Bernhard wrote:You do not as a rule fit fuses to the earth side of the electrical side of the circuit .

you could fit one main fuse, then fit lower fuses to protect different parts of the circuit, i.e. lights.


Hello,

Atleast one fuse will be fitted to the circuit, i think its going to be between battery + terminal and magkey. Either 15A or 20A.

The electric schematic that i have posted earlier has fuse for stop light and horn, and fuse for main and tail light, but i dont know if its worthy to put them there. Of course if shorts appear at some point its easier to look for the source thats causing fuse to blow when you have more fuses.

If i would fit 2 more fuses as explained above, what size should they be?

If i have 2pcs 10A fuses fitted intrusion(if its called that) the circuit needs 20A current to blow either one? When fuses are fitted in series it will not duplicate the capacity.

So would the right fuse size be 5A? So when circuit has over 10A current i will blow the fuse? Is this correct?
Image are those two fuses now fitted in series or are they intrusion?

Or are they two completely differend ones

KuusistoNorton
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:59 am

PreviousNext

Return to Other Nortons

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests