I was at the TT listening to Manx radio between events and they were interviewing Gardner. He plainly stated that Norton would be returning to IOM TT racing next year with a V4 based bike. Not a lot of detail but he was pretty emphatic and confident they would be on the starting grid next year.

That would be for the senior TT so the bike would have to be 1000 cc's. No other details. Was quite a surprise to those of us listening. Hard to believe they have that kind of money to develop a new motor, they've barely gotten the Commando out the door.

But more power to him. I hope they do. It was truly inspiring to hear a couple of Manx's boom past on the legends parade lap.

I thought Norton Racing was developing a rotary powered bike?

Rob94010 wrote:I thought Norton Racing was developing a rotary powered bike?

Bring on the V4.

I had a good chat on the phone with a friend back in Ontario. Of course, the topic of the new Norton came up, and being the time of year it is, the TT as well. We both agreed that nobody really cares about a rotary powered Norton, or any rotary powered bike for that matter. I'm sure they have their advantages in some regards or others but, like electric bikes, they just don't INSPIRE.
I've heard arguments about how archaic motorcycle technology is, how it seems stuck in the past and they just keep trying to improve the same old components. What happened to hub centre steering? Look at some of the ideas Buell put into production with their perimeter disc brake, fuel in the frame & oil in the swingarm. Buell was also the first to fit the exhaust centrally below the engine, lowering the COG. I think, with the exception of a (growing?) minority, ALL motorcyclists are purists at heart. Without getting too philisophical, motorcycles speak to a deep yearning for something powerful, exhilerating and simple. Our inner 'grunt'. This applies to even the pimply faced 16yo lusting after an ultral modern GSXR or 1098, they just don't know it yet.
Until a year ago I had been working on the front counter of bike shops, both in bike sales and parts, and I can't even count the number of times a customer would come in critisizing the manufactures for being lazy and not developing new technology. They were the ones that would always say "If Honda did this, or Kawasaki that..... blah blah blah.... I'd buy one". Ya, but only you.

Damn, this was a Norton thread, sorry.

No appoligies needed, your talking to a group of people who spend their time & money working on & riding 40 year old bikes that use technology that was 40 years old when they were new!!! Need I say more?

I think those who really spend time with rotary engines would call them inspiring. The sound,feel, and general mechanics of the engine is quite catching. (why I have 2 engines in the garage) The power output that can be attained is amazing.

Cowboy Don wrote:

Rob94010 wrote:I thought Norton Racing was developing a rotary powered bike?

I had a good chat on the phone with a friend back in Ontario. Of course, the topic of the new Norton came up, and being the time of year it is, the TT as well. We both agreed that nobody really cares about a rotary powered Norton, or any rotary powered bike for that matter. I'm sure they have their advantages in some regards or others but, like electric bikes, they just don't INSPIRE.
Damn, this was a Norton thread, sorry.

you've never seen one being raced I take it!!

I have a friend who attendes some races in the early 90's. There were a few Norton F1's running that day. He said it was wierd watching the big 4's run by at close to 160mph with a high pitch 17K on the tach, but the Norton running by at the same speed producung a low roar. Just as fast if not faster than their pistion counterparts, but much cooler in my eyes.

Seeley920 wrote:

Cowboy Don wrote:

Rob94010 wrote:I thought Norton Racing was developing a rotary powered bike?

I had a good chat on the phone with a friend back in Ontario. Of course, the topic of the new Norton came up, and being the time of year it is, the TT as well. We both agreed that nobody really cares about a rotary powered Norton, or any rotary powered bike for that matter. I'm sure they have their advantages in some regards or others but, like electric bikes, they just don't INSPIRE.
Damn, this was a Norton thread, sorry.

you've never seen one being raced I take it!!

+1


if a v4 they are probably just buying the motors from another source?

We live in the real world, so he who believes in a Norton racer at the 2012 TT- be it rotary or V4- may eventually be disappointed. The question is, as always- where is the money for it? And no, I have not mentioned time frames, qualification of the parties involved, experience in the field, let alone the track record on previous promises kept yet.

ZFD wrote:We live in the real world, so he who believes in a Norton racer at the 2012 TT- be it rotary or V4- may eventually be disappointed. The question is, as always- where is the money for it? And no, I have not mentioned time frames, qualification of the parties involved, experience in the field, let alone the track record on previous promises kept yet.

We have a phrase on this side of the pond, it's called a wet blanket.

If we want to believe in fancy new Nortons and new Commandos in the States, you should let us. Fantasies or not.

Since this has drifted away from a V4 anyway.... From a book I borrowed a while ago from a workmate who did some of the head design on the Britten V1000, I should give it back.
Anyway, the first one is a prototype test bike but how cool would that have been in the 80s, well even now. If I came across an engine I think I would have a go at building that, maybe in raw aluminum bodywork...

Now the next two... who can figure out how the race bikes more or less doubled the power of the commander/classic

I expect I'm like most, recalling rotory motors from 30 years ago. "Very Bad Ass, but with a very short life expectancy".
If this has improved any I'd be all for it.

The stories in the press have been linking the 'Norton' V4 with a Spanish firm already developing same. Supposedly for MotoGP, which would have to make it rather hi-spec. (ie around 300 bhp/litre).

The first few runs apaprently ended in engine seizure - but don't read too much into that, in the F1 world Mercedes Ferrari Renault Peugeot Cosworth etc all know that word well from the engine development phase...

However, we'll believe this new Norton when we see it. ?

shrugger wrote:I expect I'm like most, recalling rotory motors from 30 years ago. "Very Bad Ass, but with a very short life expectancy".
If this has improved any I'd be all for it.

I think you will find that the short life isnt quite as short as expected, it wasnt great (Norton air cooled rotarys) but would have been on par with a Commando. That said they could be made to last a lot longer, the side plates were an etched hyperutectic aluminum which is not the best wear surface, it is however very easy to machine a recces in the side plate and plasma/flame/arc spray a more suitable material and blanchard grind it. The seals are not too bad but if you were serious about it silicon nitride apex seals and Mazda side seals would be the way to go. The silicon nitride has the added benifit of being much lighter than the ferrous based seals as well. This would give you a pretty reliable motor that may even push some of the 4cylinder sport bikes in terms of time to rebuild. The one thing rotarys dont like is being idled, cold start stop runs and being short shifted etc this causes carbon build up. It would also be easy to fuel inject them now as well, from reading about the race bikes it sounds like they were very tricky to get jetted right

Cheesy wrote:Now the next two... who can figure out how the race bikes more or less doubled the power of the commander/classic

Not related to V4, but rotary engines are like 2 strokes - porting is everything, cooling is everything and exhausts are everything.

Those rotary jiggers in Madzas can make massive power with big ports (and peripheral ports) and the right exhaust.

Didn't Nortons too do something shonky in the cooling for the road engines,and use the incoming charge ? - heating your fuel air mix before burning it is never going to make good power....

hth