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New P11 project

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New P11 project

Postby rhino64 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:36 am

Hello, I am new to this forum and have decided to start my P11 project that has been sitting in my barn for the past 15 years. The serial number on the engine is P11/121 281 and I do have the original Washington title. If any one would have a good source for me to locate parts, it would be very helpful. This bike has had a magneto on it since I purchased it. At the moment my bike has a Norton Comando front drum brake ( side air scoop and 3 large holes on brake backing plate)' I guess a good place to start would be locating the correct front brake hub. Any seggestions?
"Racing is a constant state of distress" Mark Donohue
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Re: New P11 project

Postby grandpaul » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:07 pm

Welcome to the forum!

P11s are nice bikes, I had one for a while but couldn't afford to keep it; too many bikes in the garage...

Before spending money on parts, I'd do a full round of deep maintenance from front to back and inside out. Get it running and ride it to check out all the sub-systems then prioritize your game plan.
GrandPaul
author "Old Bikes"
too many bikes to list, including:
JPN, 952 Prototype, MkIII Interstate, Combat Dunstall, VR880 SS, Triton
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Re: New P11 project

Postby frankdamp » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:15 pm

The P-11 that I rode on test at N-V was about as far away from a "nice bike" as it was possible to get. It was very sharp-looking, I must admit, but not a "good ride." We got it sent to us from the US to test because of a big US lawsuit over the death of a rider in a desert enduro in California. Nobody at N-V had ever heard of the P-11! When we dug into things a bit deeper we found that the California branch of the US importer of AMC brands decided to make the P-11 by adapting a Matchless 500 scrambler to take an Atlas 750 motor. It was very popular in Southern Cal, but had never been an AMC product at the time. the story we got was that the fatal accident resulted from a high-speed "tank-slapper" which threw the rider over the handlebars. He was then run down by his own bike.

The bike was brand new (12 miles on the odometer) when we got it, and I got the task of breaking it in for testing. I did about 4000 road miles on it, riding 8 hours a day. It was a scary thing to ride, particularly at 75 mph and less. It had a long-wavelength directional weaving habit which got wider with speed and at 75 mph it was about 2/3 the width of a freeway lane. After riding the Commando a lot, I also found the vibration difficult to live with. We started investigating to find the cause of the weaving, thinking it had got so bad in the US accident that it pitched the rider off, maybe with the front wheel digging in on the desert surface.

Just as we were getting started, we got word that the US case had been dropped (maybe settled out of court?) and our test program was cancelled. I think the bike was still in the Experimental shop at Wolverhampton when N-V rolled over and died. Maybe someone transferring to the Andover Norton facility had taken it down there, unless someone from Plumstead decided to take it on as a production job.

I'd emigrated by then. Since I didn't keep in touch, I was surprised to find that the P-11 had gone into production in the UK.
Frank Damp
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Develpment & Competition Department
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Re: New P11 project

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:28 pm

frankdamp wrote:Just as we were getting started, we got word that the US case had been dropped (maybe settled out of court?) and our test program was cancelled. I think the bike was still in the Experimental shop at Wolverhampton when N-V rolled over and died. Maybe someone transferring to the Andover Norton facility had taken it down there, unless someone from Plumstead decided to take it on as a production job.

I'd emigrated by then. Since I didn't keep in touch, I was surprised to find that the P-11 had gone into production in the UK.


NV (Norton Villiers) didn't roll over and die? :? It was still going in 1973 when it became Norton Villiers Triumph (NVT).
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Re: New P11 project

Postby rhino64 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:45 pm

Thank you for the input, Frank. I really appreciate the memories and copied it for future reference.
I found a Rancher front wheel with hub, now I am looking for the internals. Backing plate shoe mech and lever.....any help would be appreciated
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Re: New P11 project

Postby pierodn » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:20 am

Hi.
I think you have a 1967 P11 that has the skimmed hubs.
The Ranger hubs are flanged.
I have a P11 A that should have skimmed hubs but i have fitted the flanged (like Ranger).
I have the two skimmed hubs apart, but i like more the flanged one.
When i started to rebuild my P11 i didnt know nothing of this bike.
I have had the best help here from all.
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Re: New P11 project

Postby Ron L » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:32 pm

rhino64 wrote:Hello, I am new to this forum and have decided to start my P11 project that has been sitting in my barn for the past 15 years. The serial number on the engine is P11/121 281 and I do have the original Washington title. If any one would have a good source for me to locate parts, it would be very helpful. This bike has had a magneto on it since I purchased it. At the moment my bike has a Norton Comando front drum brake ( side air scoop and 3 large holes on brake backing plate)' I guess a good place to start would be locating the correct front brake hub. Any seggestions?


If you have a Commando front brake and wheel, do you have the proper Matchless forks or has an entire Commando front end been mounted? Is the rear hub Matchless?
Ron L
'73 MkV 750 Roadster
'74 850 Interstate
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Re: New P11 project

Postby Paul W » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:53 am

I have two Rangers with very close numbering. One has the ribbed hubs and one skimmed. It all depends what the factory had stockwise. Normally the ranger has the ribbed type though.
1969 Commando S
1968 P11 Ranger (x2)
1966 650SS
1957 Model 30 International
1953 ES2
1939 Triumph Tiger 100
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Re: New P11 project

Postby pierodn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:42 am

Paul W wrote:I have two Rangers with very close numbering. One has the ribbed hubs and one skimmed. It all depends what the factory had stockwise. Normally the ranger has the ribbed type though.


Hi.
I agree with you.
I dont care if my bike has parts of previous or later P11 type.
But someone known as the P11 Guru (never seen in this forum) says the contrary.
My 1968 P11 A has the ribbed hubs, the solo seat, steel front and rear mudguard, high pipe, the swithch key between the coils, etc., but is an amazing bike and it runs great.
But, the Guru, that had seen some pictures of my P11 wrote me "your own P11 is a combination of all four P11 models" and closed with "you have done it a horrendous restoration".
I don't care, my bike is beautiful and I am very proud, thanks to a lot of help received from this forum members, to have rebuilt myself from scratch, piece by piece.
Dear Rhino your bike will be the beautifull, with or without ribbed or skimmed hub.
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Re: New P11 project

Postby rhino64 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:12 pm

Ron L wrote:
rhino64 wrote:Hello, I am new to this forum and have decided to start my P11 project that has been sitting in my barn for the past 15 years. The serial number on the engine is P11/121 281 and I do have the original Washington title. If any one would have a good source for me to locate parts, it would be very helpful. This bike has had a magneto on it since I purchased it. At the moment my bike has a Norton Comando front drum brake ( side air scoop and 3 large holes on brake backing plate)' I guess a good place to start would be locating the correct front brake hub. Any seggestions?


If you have a Commando front brake and wheel, do you have the proper Matchless forks or has an entire Commando front end been mounted? Is the rear hub Matchless?


I still have the correct front matchless forks and the rear hub is the original ribbed hub
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Re: New P11 project

Postby CanukNortonNut » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:31 pm

rhino64 wrote:
Ron L wrote:
rhino64 wrote:Hello, I am new to this forum and have decided to start my P11 project that has been sitting in my barn for the past 15 years. The serial number on the engine is P11/121 281 and I do have the original Washington title. If any one would have a good source for me to locate parts, it would be very helpful. This bike has had a magneto on it since I purchased it. At the moment my bike has a Norton Comando front drum brake ( side air scoop and 3 large holes on brake backing plate)' I guess a good place to start would be locating the correct front brake hub. Any seggestions?


If you have a Commando front brake and wheel, do you have the proper Matchless forks or has an entire Commando front end been mounted? Is the rear hub Matchless?


I still have the correct front matchless forks and the rear hub is the original ribbed hub

So you need a complete front ribbed hub with bearings/spacers etc. + axle and brake plate assembly to bring it back to correct Matchless P11? This may be a tough cookie...search evilbay or post a wanted in our forum. I think brake shoes need to be exchange only.
edit: you can get new axles. try here: http://www.jampot.com/ads_G_PRIVList.asp?adtype=PAR
or here: http://www.amcclassicspares.com/ or here: http://www.amoc-parts.com/store/comersu ... ategory=79
good luck.
Cheers,
Thomas
On Any Sunday...A motorcycle is what ever you want to make it. Turn it on, and you can give yourself a real thrill...
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Re: New P11 project

Postby rhino64 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:35 pm

[/quote]
So you need a complete front ribbed hub with bearings/spacers etc. + axle and brake plate assembly to bring it back to correct Matchless P11? This may be a tough cookie...search evilbay or post a wanted in our forum. I think brake shoes need to be exchange only.
edit: you can get new axles. try here: http://www.jampot.com/ads_G_PRIVList.asp?adtype=PAR
or here: http://www.amcclassicspares.com/ or here: http://www.amoc-parts.com/store/comersu ... ategory=79
good luck.
Cheers,
Thomas

Thank you, Thomas. That's what I'm looking for :D Any and all help is highly appreciated.
Best,
Reinhold
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Re: New P11 project

Postby pierodn » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:41 pm

rhino64 wrote:
Ron L wrote:
rhino64 wrote:Hello, I am new to this forum and have decided to start my P11 project that has been sitting in my barn for the past 15 years. The serial number on the engine is P11/121 281 and I do have the original Washington title. If any one would have a good source for me to locate parts, it would be very helpful. This bike has had a magneto on it since I purchased it. At the moment my bike has a Norton Comando front drum brake ( side air scoop and 3 large holes on brake backing plate)' I guess a good place to start would be locating the correct front brake hub. Any seggestions?


If you have a Commando front brake and wheel, do you have the proper Matchless forks or has an entire Commando front end been mounted? Is the rear hub Matchless?


I still have the correct front matchless forks and the rear hub is the original ribbed hub


So, it means that the P11 can have the ribbed hubs.
Well.
Ciso
Piero

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Re: New P11 project

Postby rhino64 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:49 am

I just want to clarify, when we speak of "ribbed" front hub, are we talking about the right side face having structural ribs aposed to the right side being smooth or "skimmed"?
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Re: New P11 project

Postby BillT » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:14 am

rhino64 wrote:I just want to clarify, when we speak of "ribbed" front hub, are we talking about the right side face having structural ribs aposed to the right side being smooth or "skimmed"?


No. Skimmed hubs have the cooling ribs cast into the circumference machined off. Unskimmed hubs, as found on the Ranger 750 or G80CS have those ribs intact.

Image
AMC front Unkimmed hub
'73 Norton 850 Commando - 3030xx
'69 Norton Ranger 750 - P11/1289xx
'67 Matchless G15CS - G15CS/1235xx
'61 Matchless G80CS - 61/G80CS/41xx
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