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New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Modern 961 Norton Commando Motorcycles

Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby BritTwit » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:56 am

byjefsm wrote:Contact your dealer they have access to them. It is essentially spelled out in TSB 14 which is the TSB that addresses the crankcase breather modifications. It clearly spells out no more than 1.5 liters of oil.


byjefsm,

The service bulletin 14 that my dealer pulled down from the Norton service site is dated: 20/8/2015
Clearly states 2.3 liters.
With my breather kit installed, and 2.3 liters of oil, after running the bike, the oil line is in the middle of the knurled area of new dipstick.

Is your bulletin dated after 20/8/2015?

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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby byjefsm » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:31 pm

Kev is correct. If your bike has the breather kit its 1.5 liters... Richards oil change instruction needs to be updated to reflect this factory change.

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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby byjefsm » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:42 pm

The newest service bulletin is dated 14/7/16 it clearly states as noted below 1.5 liters.


79. Once all stages above are completed refill the oil, as below: From a fully drained engine ONLY
including oil tank + sump
• Put 1.5L of oil into the oil tank
• Oil spec: Silkolene Super4 SAE 10W-40 Semi-Synthetic
I hope this clears up this issue.

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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby contours » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:59 pm

Interesting. Less oil required after the breather kit installation? Even with the added volume of the check valve and extra tubing. So where does the extra oil go without the breather kit? To the bottom of the crankcase when the bike is idle for so many days? And then out through the airbox when it is started up again? That's weird because I carefully added 2.2L on my last oil change and have not had more than 5ml captured in the bottle after 200 miles. Then again, maybe after it has sat for 10 weeks I will see a significant amount once I start 'er up again. :?:
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby BritTwit » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:23 pm

I believe this problem is similar to the issue that owners of classic Nortons have experienced for years.
The oil lines from the oil tank and oil cooler connect to the housing of the external oil pump.
Normally the tolerances of the internal pump vanes are pretty tight, and can hold back the oil within the pump housing when the engine is not running.
But there is seepage especially when the oil is hot, and over long periods between operations.
Drip, drip, drip and over time much of the sump fills with oil seeping through the pump mechanism itself.
I think the new press-in oil pump check valve in the breather kit is designed to stop this seepage, or at least greatly reduce it.
If the oil doesn’t drain into the sump, the dip stick readings will be more consistent.

This is the inherent problem of a dry sump engine, and why most manufacturers use wet sump design instead these days.
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby Britfan60 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:51 pm

Regardless of what GC dealership tells you, more than once they've way overfilled my bike. Top of the stick. At correct levels, my stick reads just at the lower line when cold, half way up the stick after running for a minute or two. Still have the old stick.
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby comet » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 am

byjefsm wrote:The newest service bulletin is dated 14/7/16 it clearly states as noted below 1.5 liters.


Does that meant there are two service bulletins with the same number, or does the 2016 one have a later number? I'm assuming they would increment the number each time a TSB is issued.


Britfan60 wrote:Still have the old stick.


Which old dipstick do you have, the one that measures 110mm from bottom of cap to end of the stick, or the one that is 120mm (the latest one is 155mm)?
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby byjefsm » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:01 am

The later dated service bulletin superscedes the previous edition.

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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby richard-7 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:04 pm

byjefsm wrote:Kev is correct. If your bike has the breather kit its 1.5 liters... Richards oil change instruction needs to be updated to reflect this factory change.



Yeah. But heres the thing. My bike doesn't put oil in the airbox any more. This breather system is really a band-aid. We've communicated to the factory how to fix it properly. My dad was even there and showed them before this breathing system was introduced. Thats why I'm not changing it. Also, not all bikes need the breather from factory. Only the ones you are hearing about do. A lot of this issue can be machined during manufacturing. Some of the issue depends on the person assembling the engine. Piston to bore clearances, rings lining up. Theres a lot more into it than I can share over this forum. Anything in my manuals I do. If it needs changing. I do a rev control and you'll see that in my manuals. For now, nothing needs to be changed.
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby Britfan60 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:35 pm

richard-7 wrote:
byjefsm wrote:Kev is correct. If your bike has the breather kit its 1.5 liters... Richards oil change instruction needs to be updated to reflect this factory change.



Yeah. But heres the thing. My bike doesn't put oil in the airbox any more. This breather system is really a band-aid. We've communicated to the factory how to fix it properly. My dad was even there and showed them before this breathing system was introduced. Thats why I'm not changing it. Also, not all bikes need the breather from factory. Only the ones you are hearing about do. A lot of this issue can be machined during manufacturing. Some of the issue depends on the person assembling the engine. Piston to bore clearances, rings lining up. Theres a lot more into it than I can share over this forum. Anything in my manuals I do. If it needs changing. I do a rev control and you'll see that in my manuals. For now, nothing needs to be changed.



This is true. I've never had more than a teaspoon or two in my airbox. My air filter is 4 years old and looks brand new with 8600 miles on it. However, when my bike was being worked on for the tranny, starter and a few other items, the upgrades were performed. It turns out, my bike was burning oil by the quart. The inside on valve cover was covered with burnt oil and I was losing a pint ever 5-600 miles. Needed new rings at 2K. Norton really stepped up and took care of all of that under warranty and the bike has not burned a drop or lost any level in over 4000 miles. But again, the dealership way overfilled. I was at the over the top line of the dipstick. Had to drain out about a half pint.
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby Britfan60 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:35 pm

richard-7 wrote:
byjefsm wrote:Kev is correct. If your bike has the breather kit its 1.5 liters... Richards oil change instruction needs to be updated to reflect this factory change.



Yeah. But heres the thing. My bike doesn't put oil in the airbox any more. This breather system is really a band-aid. We've communicated to the factory how to fix it properly. My dad was even there and showed them before this breathing system was introduced. Thats why I'm not changing it. Also, not all bikes need the breather from factory. Only the ones you are hearing about do. A lot of this issue can be machined during manufacturing. Some of the issue depends on the person assembling the engine. Piston to bore clearances, rings lining up. Theres a lot more into it than I can share over this forum. Anything in my manuals I do. If it needs changing. I do a rev control and you'll see that in my manuals. For now, nothing needs to be changed.



This is true. I've never had more than a teaspoon or two in my airbox. My air filter is 4 years old and looks brand new with 8600 miles on it. However, when my bike was being worked on for the tranny, starter and a few other items, the upgrades were performed. It turns out, my bike was burning oil by the quart. The inside on valve cover was covered with burnt oil and I was losing a pint ever 5-600 miles. Needed new rings at 2K. Norton really stepped up and took care of all of that under warranty and the bike has not burned a drop or lost any level in over 4000 miles. But again, the dealership way overfilled. I was at the over the top line of the dipstick. Had to drain out about a half pint.
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby contours » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:17 am

richard-7 wrote:This breather system is really a band-aid. We've communicated to the factory how to fix it properly. My dad was even there and showed them before this breathing system was introduced. Thats why I'm not changing it. Also, not all bikes need the breather from factory. Only the ones you are hearing about do. A lot of this issue can be machined during manufacturing. Some of the issue depends on the person assembling the engine. Piston to bore clearances, rings lining up.


I paid attention the very first time you mentioned it, Richard. If you don't mind me asking, are you and your dad offering this service to local 961 owners? If so, I would consider getting in line if I start seeing more oil in the catch bottle. Otherwise, my experience has been the same as Britfan60's - very little oil lost and a clean airbox and filter. :o
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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby byjefsm » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:57 am

BritTwit wrote:
byjefsm wrote:Contact your dealer they have access to them. It is essentially spelled out in TSB 14 which is the TSB that addresses the crankcase breather modifications. It clearly spells out no more than 1.5 liters of oil.


byjefsm,

The service bulletin 14 that my dealer pulled down from the Norton service site is dated: 20/8/2015
Clearly states 2.3 liters.
With my breather kit installed, and 2.3 liters of oil, after running the bike, the oil line is in the middle of the knurled area of new dipstick.

Is your bulletin dated after 20/8/2015?

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Yes it has a later date of 14/7/16

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Re: New Oil Dipstick from Norton Factory UK

Postby pingu-nz » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:16 am

The newest service bulletin is dated 14/7/16 it clearly states as noted below 1.5 liters.


79. Once all stages above are completed refill the oil, as below: From a fully drained engine ONLY
including oil tank + sump
• Put 1.5L of oil into the oil tank
• Oil spec: Silkolene Super4 SAE 10W-40 Semi-Synthetic
I hope this clears up this issue.


byjefsm.

Do you have a copy of the new service bulletin ?
Could you post it on the forum ?

I note it has more steps involved as oil added at step 79 not 60 as previous.
I asked my dealer to log on to Norton site and the current TSB 14 is the older version.
Which means they will still add the 2.3 litres of oil as stated.

cheers
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