New disc brake slider

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New disc brake slider

Postby madass140 » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:37 am

Next year I will be producing pinchbolt fork sliders , the early round ones,
If I was to make a disc brake slider then I could make the new slider so it could accomodate a larger disc, 300mm?
I would need to determine which caliper , Brembo from a Ducati maybe or??? and which discs could be used.
My idea would be to supply a slider to which you could directly fit your own caliper and disc, not a Noton Production Racer or Norvil type setup. probably a 4 or even a 6 piston caliper.
constructive criticism only please.
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby grandpaul » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:35 am

I like the idea.

I'll bet if you look at a dozen current 600cc UJMs, you'll see that they're all the same if not the same spec, where the brakes are concerned.

Shoot for something common, with relatively low pricetag and ready availability.
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby ludwig » Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:29 am

It would indeed be a big plus to get rid of the adaptor plates .
With std sliders a 310 mm disc is possible .
I opted for a Spiegler S4C caliper , because it has larger dia pistons than a comparable Brembo :
http://www.toeffhandel.ch/docs/PDF/brem ... zangen.pdf



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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby hobot » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:36 pm

There's a few issues here. One is picking a rotor dia that has cost effective choices available. 310/320 mm rotors are by far the most common for road bikes. Another is as OD increases so does the speed/friction/heat differences between inner and outer rotor section. This is why they use small mulitple piston calipers on narrow rotors now instead of one big ole pad like Lockheed's, or else get wrapped rotor issue. So if you pick the most common rotor size then you shoot self in break pad foot of Norton's art deco sculptured caliper I like so much too.

The adapter plates look rather inelegant stop gap mounts with extra parts and mass to me. I fitted rare 290 mm wave rotor to Ms Peel w/o adapter gizmo but does leave ~1/4" of Lockheed pad over hanging the rotor rim. I figure the extra OD leverage and rotors friction increasing edges and lighter spinning mass to slow will more than make up the slight lost of total swept area. Not sure what to do the the excess pad edge, just leave it alone for bit more heat radiation area and let rest of pad wear a lip or grind off to match rotor arc. Trick was to not foul the floating fasteners. I assembled everything with brake lever squeezed then welded the piece in there so assured aligned and clearance once cooled.

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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby madass140 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:13 pm

Ludwig what is the rotor thickness you are using? I notice you are using a 32 spoke wheel, what is the reason behibd this?
Hobot what is your rotor thickness ?
most of these big rotors only have a 5mm thickness
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby Rohan » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:00 pm

How about a slider that allows a 2nd disc on a Commando, std caliper.
Twin discs would give some stopping power - and the std master cylinder would then make some sense ? Hub and axle might be interesting, and wheel lacing .
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby bwolfie » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:03 pm

RGM sells a dual disk hub reasonably priced. I am about to order one this week. I have one disk now, but a future project is to add the second, and a slider with the mount would be great.
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby rpatton » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:22 pm

It would be nice if you made a slider that would take a four piston Brembo on a 310mm disc. The calipers and discs are on ebay all the time at bargain prices and they would meet the needs of just about anybody.
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby madass140 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:59 pm

how about a 6 piston Tokico on a 310 or 320 disc? this is what I'm looking at,
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby rpatton » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:08 pm

This is a fairly conservative crowd. :)
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby hobot » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:31 pm

Hobot what is your rotor thickness ?


Its a race only 290 mm - 11.6" BraKing wave rotor, 1/4" or 5 mm thick, model STX400 4mm minimum thickness, floating button mounts. Found on ebay cheap as full retail is couple $100+ at least.

I practice braking as most important scary and hardest skill to learn. I'm no stunter yet but have stoppied a SV650 and Ninja but they do not stop as short and secure as my single brake Commando's. Ease of lever is one thing but the real issue is tire grip and controlling that w/o lifting the rear much or means head over tea kettle unless backing off braking effort. With this experience in mind I figured less spinning and un sprung mass was better way to slow and stop my Cdo's. I actually expect to beat elite sports bikes with ABS in 100 > 0 time and distance. They may have a balloon tire which looks the business but hehe they still have similar tire patch area so only tire compound and air pressure matters in front braking grip. Its dangerous to panic grab brake near 100 on the moderns w/o ABS but not my Cdo's which just squeal loudly w/o ABS jerks till under 60 then must back off or lock up. You can't really stop where intended on THE Gravel with ABS. Dual discs have more heat tolerance before fade by sharing heat loads so may work better for tight tract racing conditions.

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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby Rohan » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:47 pm

Could you get twin discs on a Commando by running twin disc sliders, one std caliper behind the forks and one in front of the forks. ?

Assuming the hub would take twin std discs, how would you work the axle ?
Is there room to work twin discs in there ?
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby madass140 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:01 pm

the Norton hub doesnt really lend itself to the idea of twin discs, in the past I remember seeing a fore and aft twin disc setup , not sure if it was on a Norton or Triumph, not my cup of tea and I certainly wouldnt be going that way.
For twin discs you would need a different hub, Its not my plan to go twin discs, my plan would be to have a single disc kit available consisting of slider, rotor, and probably caliper, which would all bolt to or replace exixting items with out modifying anything, people want bolt on parts straight out of the box that fits, no messin about. Master cylinder of their own choice.
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby ludwig » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:25 am

madass140 wrote:.. I notice you are using a 32 spoke wheel, what is the reason behind this?..


eh ..weight ?
Rotor is 4.8 mm .
Hub is a one off , symmetrical , no offset .
Instead of adapting the disk carrier to the hub , you could consider adapting the hub to the carrier and get rid of that ridiculous offset .
Making a hub is no big deal , but it would involve drilling a rim for that specific hub , calculating spoke length , etc ..
So probably not practical if you want a bolt on solution ..
Last edited by ludwig on Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New disc brake slider

Postby ludwig » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:44 am

rpatton wrote:It would be nice if you made a slider that would take a four piston Brembo on a 310mm disc. The calipers and discs are on ebay all the time at bargain prices and they would meet the needs of just about anybody.


The holes on these calipers are std 40 mm apart .
There is enough material on the sliders for these calipers and 310 , even 320 mm disk .
Clamp the caliper on the disc in the correct position with compressed air and drill .
Remove exess material .
4 , 6 or 8 pistons .. what are you waiting for ?
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