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Mk111 Project

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Mk111 Project

Postby Torontonian » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:12 pm

Starting a new thread for the 6 buckets of parts that were waiting on some action. Seeing as I broke my leg (upper tibia) last week kickstarting Crazy :oops: , I feel new motivation to go electric. :roll: So far I've reassembled the bottom end with a harder earlier cam after noticing lobe wear starting on the 75 cam , and last night slid the barrells down over the .40 over AE British pistons. So here's today's question , I have a Boyer Micro Mk 1V ignition as well as the original V.G.C. low mileage AAU unit and points plate. Which system should I fit ? The Boyer would be so easy and I've never attempted points. I have an Accel Harley Super Coil Dual tower kit 140403S that I'd like to use too but would like to know how to wire it up based on which decicion is made. B.T.W. the motor numbers are : 850 334226 with H20 stamped at the front engine mount area. The head is RH10 with new guides and will be will be fitted later on. Thanks.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby toppy » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:48 pm

I would fit the Boyer. I have a 30+ year old one with screw down type wire terminals on the pickup plate not the later soldered wire an bullet connections type. The bike has never kicked back, started first or second kick an now with Alton Ekit starts first press of button.
If carbs ignition an wiring are in good order it will be fine. Often other faults are to blame but Boyers reputation for kicking back an braking wires has people distrusting it when problems arise.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby JimNH » Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:06 pm

I think only the early Boyers have the problem, perhaps Dyno Dave can elaborate.
A good charging system I feel is a must if you want reliable starting. Put a 3 phase alternator and a DD starter on it. Since those mods mine starts like a modern bike. I had an early Boyer which did kick back and take the sprag out. It didn't kick back when kick stating it as it was getting better voltage. I also checked every connection and ended up bypassing most with 14 gauge wire as well. I also got rid of the early Boyer for a Pazon.

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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby Torontonian » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:12 pm

Thanks I want DD input here as my notes say retain the points setup. The Prestolite starter has been rebuilt with a 4 brush HD system.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby Torontonian » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:47 pm

Set up the New Mk1V rotor and transistor plate in line with Norton Word. Typing here with Norton kicking broken leg , new double fiberglass cast replacing first single layer one ,blue. Pain over. Just to make this fall perfect woke up early with coffee to watch a woman back into Crazy Combat on street and knock it over on it's side at 8:15 A.M. I am never awake then , but wanted to send wife off to work with coffee. Called police ,have report , neighbours helped pick 'er up. Got personal plate as she sped off. Police ran through computer then printout in cruiser her address 5 blks. south. Bed robe crutches n' socks with coffee. :|
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby cjandme » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:39 am

Must........ have ..........pictures, Torontoian :P
P.S. sorry about the leg
Last edited by cjandme on Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby concours » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:20 am

Torontonian wrote:Set up the New Mk1V rotor and transistor plate in line with Norton Word. Typing here with Norton kicking broken leg , new double fiberglass cast replacing first single layer one ,blue. Pain over. Just to make this fall perfect woke up early with coffee to watch a woman back into Crazy Combat on street and knock it over on it's side at 8:15 A.M. I am never awake then , but wanted to send wife off to work with coffee. Called police ,have report , neighbours helped pick 'er up. Got personal plate as she sped off. Police ran through computer then printout in cruiser her address 5 blks. south. Bed robe crutches n' socks with coffee. :|

Man, that sucks. Sorry it's coming at ya all at once. :?
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby concours » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:23 am

cjandme wrote:Must........ have ..........pictures, Torontoian :P


+1
Displaced/plate/screws? Simple fracture?

JK :P Hope it heals swiftly.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby worntorn » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:36 am

That is a nasty bit of luck.
You seem to be taking it all very well. Hope it heals up nicely for you, but I can understand if you now have some trepidation about kick starting.
I limped around for awhile this summer after kicking my 1360 to life a few times. That was just from the normal strain of rolling it over. If it ever kicks back, I will go into orbit... :mrgreen:

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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby daveparry » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:38 am

I would definitely fit the Boyer. When I first bought my 850 in the mid '70's it had the original points set-up and I was re-setting the points and checking the timing at least every couple of months to get reasonably easy starting. I fitted a Boyer black box unit, which I think was their second generation unit, this would have been around 1977 and it's still going strong to this day (and I've never touched the timing during all of that time!) I think the kicking back problems people speak of in connection with the Boyer is usually caused by low battery voltage.
Btw, the original Boyer system had all the electronics contained in an extended points cover on the timing chest, has anyone else ever come across those?
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby dynodave » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:20 am

Torontonian wrote:Thanks I want DD input here as my notes say retain the points setup. The Prestolite starter has been rebuilt with a 4 brush HD system.


The early MKIII ANALOG BOYER does have a low voltage problem that is especially hard on MKIII commando...with any e-starter...2 brush 4 brush or my starter.
Since my follow up research (Jan 2001) and expressing my views on this topic, no EI makers have offered their ignitions for review, and I'm sure not going to buy them. So please don't bother to ask for updated recommendation. I reluctantly will parrot the forums/internet.
I bought a new boyer in the late 80's, and to this day I never installed it on any of my bikes. I mostly use it as a tester on my distributor machine...you can see the boyer pick up here. Also any (non MKIII customer) boyer I do work on, gets 4-40 brass screw posts and better leads. Also for superior cooling, I hang the boyer down between the coils like the RITA using a custom bracket I designed.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby hobot » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:26 am

Low voltage black box boyah is pretty hard on kick starter legs too. I've though about a small battery in line with boyah with a didode to prevent voltage back to main battery draw down.
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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby Jerry Doe » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:26 pm

Yes low voltage not good with boyer starting. I used tri-spark and before that on my mk2 i used pazon. Both of these seem to be better if the battery gets a bit low. I think if battery is low the boyer tends to advance a bit (correct me if i am wrong). Of course points work too. I am so happy with my mk3. My back herniated disk thanks me. Make sure the backfire device is set at the proper torque. I still use my kickstart if the bike has been standing for over a week.


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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby worntorn » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:58 pm

Jerry, speaking of low battery voltage, did your Shorai batteries survive the low voltage happening you reported on earlier this year?

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Re: Mk111 Project

Postby Jerry Doe » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:45 am

Hi Glen,

Yes they are perfect again. I had to buy the Shorai charger and it fixed them within 1 hour and have been ok since.

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