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layshaft bearing

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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby JimNH » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:07 am

o0norton0o wrote:I went with the CNW open roller bearing on my rebuild. I eliiminated the gaskets and used the grey sealant (forget the name) My kickstart doesn't have excessive side play that I can see... but maybe it does and I am too clueless to observe it... The choice between roller and ball may be moot if both improved bearings outlast the rest of the gearbox parts. I like roller bearings, so I went with the spec'd CNW roller bearing. I can't imagine mick hemmings suggested a bearing which is a poor choice either... I would bet money that you could chose either and be totally fine...

I also installed the CNW sealed mainshaft inner bearing to cut down on any gear oil leaks at the output shaft. That has worked flawlessly too.


After watching Comnoz's excellent video I also went with a roller. There's really no thrust issue on the shaft and the explanation for shimming the kick shaft makes sense.

I think that if I ever have to disassemble the box for any other reason, such as to install a sealed main shaft bearing, the process will be faster as one can just remove the layshaft without resorting to heat again. A slight advantage, I know but I also like roller bearings where appropriate.

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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby elefantrider » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:02 pm

With the roller bearing, how do you pull the bearing out for inspection without removing the gearbox, or destroying the bearing (taking the rollers out)?

Can you use heat and get a puller behind the rollers? Will heat and a puller damage the rollers and plastic cage?
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby elefantrider » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:54 pm

Nobody has had to remove a roller layshaft bearing in-bike?
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby jaydee75 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:05 pm

You don't have to remove the roller brg to remove the layshaft, it just slips out. A big advantage in my book.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby CanukNortonNut » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:09 pm

Use a heat gun to remove the bearing, if you need to. The inner race will pull out with the layshaft.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby elefantrider » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:20 am

Heat alone is enough to remove the roller bearing once the inner race is out? Or do you also need to use a puller for leverage behind the rollers, if there is enough space to get behind them? If no puller (slide hammer) how else do you pull it out?

For my ball bearing, it took heat AND a slide hammer attached to the layshaft.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby kommando » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:07 am

For the roller outer I have used a torch to heat the case on the bike and then got the outer out with gloved hands preceded if required by a thump from the otherside with a hammer on a block of wood.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby Frankie17 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:12 am

FAG bearings are manufactured in Portugal / India / China etc FAG have plants all over the globe and production runs especially metric bearings can come from either factory
so spotting a counterfit will be very difficult ? different country of origin does not necasarily mean its counterfit

if you purchase direct from an official FAG distributor / importer you will be getting the real macoy especially in the US , restrictions and import tarrifs on bearings are in place

distributors must be accountable to US customs to where products ( bearings ) originated from

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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:17 am

elefantrider wrote:With the roller bearing, how do you pull the bearing out for inspection without removing the gearbox, or destroying the bearing (taking the rollers out)?



The roller bearing should last for many thousands of miles (unlike the original metal cage 6203 ball bearing) and I don't think it is absolutely necessary to remove the bearing to get an idea of its condition.


elefantrider wrote:Can you use heat and get a puller behind the rollers? Will heat and a puller damage the rollers and plastic cage?



As it's not a particularly expensive item then in my opinion, if there's the slightest doubt about its condition just fit a new bearing, then you don't have to worry about damaging the old one when you remove it.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby jaydee75 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:42 pm

Elephant, I don't think you understand that the rollers come out with the layshaft. The only thing left behind in the case is the outer race. Should last a lifetime.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:02 pm

jaydee75 wrote:Elephant, I don't think you understand that the rollers come out with the layshaft. The only thing left behind in the case is the outer race.


It's an NJ bearing, so only the inner race comes out with the layshaft.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby dynodave » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:23 pm

I have 23 gearboxes and am working on 4 at the moment. 3 of mine and 1 for customer
Will be giving tech session on saturday so I'm in prep and study mode anyway...

http://atlanticgreen.com/images/6203fag.jpg
from left: FAG
pos1- 2 Germany cages are sheetmetal with 2 tabs crimped over other plaincage... top bearing is best visual.
pos2- Portugal gold colored steel uses same method as German bearing
pos3- Korea 2RS (rubber seal) uses staked pin same as NTN below
pos4- German 11 roller polymide cage, rollers stay with outer U race

http://atlanticgreen.com/images/6203skf.jpg
from left: SKF
pos1-2 Great Britian staked pin joins cages
pos2-2 Sweden staked pin joins cages
pos3- 1 Argentina staked pin joins cages 1 sheild/1 removed
pos4- Germany 11 roller(stay with outer U race) polymide cage

http://atlanticgreen.com/images/6203ntn.jpg
left NTN-2 Japan- cage has pressed nipples on one side of cage and is spot welded with other side
right BCA bearing corporations of America (service outlet for NTN bearings) plastic separators pressed in this is a shielded bearing origin unk
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:11 pm

dynodave wrote:pos2- Portugal gold colored steel


Are you sure it isn't brass? :?
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby dynodave » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:29 pm

L.A.B. wrote:
dynodave wrote:pos2- Portugal gold colored steel


Are you sure it isn't brass? :?


I'll check it to make sure. It will involve removing the little crimps and puling it out. I'll see if it's magnetic...maybe I can tell just from the force required to uncrimp the tabs.
It is very unlikely I would have ever used it except in a sectioned away gearbox demo unit.
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Re: layshaft bearing

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:49 pm

dynodave wrote:
L.A.B. wrote:
dynodave wrote:pos2- Portugal gold colored steel


Are you sure it isn't brass? :?


I'll check it to make sure. It will involve removing the little crimps and puling it out. I'll see if it's magnetic...maybe I can tell just from the force required to uncrimp the tabs.



Scrape it with a kraft(craft?) knife (Stanley knife).
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