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Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain......

Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby Fast Eddie » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:43 pm

I've used Morgo rotary pumps before, what dya wanna know?

FWIW I think they're good, they flow much more oil which helps cool the motor somewhat and is useful in highly tuned or stressed engines.

My 68 is neither tuned or particularly highly stressed, so I don't have one in mine.

Downsides are, they need bleeding to work properly, an air lock can inhibit their performance. They will make a Triumph wet sump just like a Norton! And on some bikes, the increased flow can cause issues with oil egressing from the oil tank breather.
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby Triton Thrasher » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:15 am

Pull the tickler roll pin down, so it reaches the float.
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby L.A.B. » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:37 am

auldblue wrote:Balls up , stripped on of the carb bowl screws. Swap carb Fromm other bike till heli coil gets here or fit new carbs. Would like to fit new carbs but want to fix the old ones and see if it runs ok first.


An M5 will often hold where the original 2BA has stripped.

auldblue wrote:Balanced the carbs but the DS carb would not tickle, float and height seemed OK. When I started it the TS was cool but the DS was hot and noisier so on rebuild stripped the screw.


The DS carb wouldn't tickle, but apparently, it started and ran on the DS cylinder? :? Can you confirm that's correct? If so, did the TS chime in when the revs were increased which might suggest the TS carb pilot circuit was blocked and perhaps why the throttle stop screw was set so high on the TS carb?


auldblue wrote: What would cause it not to flood the carb ?


If the 'float' height is too low the tickler doesn't reach, however, the float needle in your photo appears to be the brass type which can result in a low fuel level. A change to aluminium needles might cure it or the float heights (actually fuel levels) might need adjusting.

http://amalcarb.co.uk/optimising-mark-1 ... uel-levels
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:45 am

Cheers for the reply les.

Bike is now blowing the fuse when the ignition is turned on ,I have connected a test light . Removing the, rectifier and zener wires does nothing but taking the brown/white wire off at the ignition switch puts it out.

Image

There is no oil pressure switch connected on this bike, I am going to remedy that today with a bit of luck and the shell seems to be devoid of the brass ground sleeve at the bottom for an earth wire to fit in. I feel de Javu all over again with this.

Once I get this sorted I can concentrate on getting it running. My photobucket has gone also !


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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby L.A.B. » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:44 am

auldblue wrote:Bike is now blowing the fuse when the ignition is turned on ,I have connected a test light . Removing the, rectifier and zener wires does nothing but taking the brown/white wire off at the ignition switch puts it out.


Assuming the short isn't inside the actual switch, that suggests a short somewhere along the 'white' feed wiring to the coils, brake light switch, etc.



auldblue wrote: There is no oil pressure switch connected on this bike, I am going to remedy that today with a bit of luck.....


Sometimes it can be difficult keeping track of which model we are dealing with ('68 or '70). This is the '68 isn't it, in which case it wouldn't normally have an oil pressure switch (and the thread in the '68 timing cover is not the same as the oil pressure switch unless the cover has been changed/modified). The green lamp in the shell was an 'ignition on' warning before the introduction of the oil pressure switch (for '69). Red was for high beam.


auldblue wrote: and the shell seems to be devoid of the brass ground sleeve at the bottom for an earth wire to fit in.


It doesn't need the shell earth/ground, as the 'earth' (return) to the battery is through the red (positive) harness wiring.
The headlamp shell connection was put there on later models so the front indicators (where fitted) had an earth connection to the red return wiring. It's not a headlamp bulb earth as is often thought (that's what the red wiring is for!).
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby Triton Thrasher » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:02 am

Morgo do a slightly ungainly and slightly dear adaptor for putting a 1/8 BSP oil pressure switch on the 3/8" Cycle 26 tpi hole in the front of the timing cover.

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http://www.morgo.co.uk/morgo-oil-pressure-gauge/114-morgo-oil-pressure-gauge-2-way-adaptor-38-bscy.html
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:40 am

L.A.B. wrote:
auldblue wrote:Bike is now blowing the fuse when the ignition is turned on ,I have connected a test light . Removing the, rectifier and zener wires does nothing but taking the brown/white wire off at the ignition switch puts it out.


Assuming the short isn't inside the actual switch, that suggests a short somewhere along the 'white' feed wiring to the coils, brake light switch, etc.



auldblue wrote: There is no oil pressure switch connected on this bike, I am going to remedy that today with a bit of luck.....


Sometimes it can be difficult keeping track of which model we are dealing with ('68 or '70). This is the '68 isn't it, in which case it wouldn't normally have an oil pressure switch (and the thread in the '68 timing cover is not the same as the oil pressure switch unless the cover has been changed/modified). The green lamp in the shell was an 'ignition on' warning before the introduction of the oil pressure switch (for '69). Red was for high beam.


auldblue wrote: and the shell seems to be devoid of the brass ground sleeve at the bottom for an earth wire to fit in.


It doesn't need the shell earth/ground, as the 'earth' (return) to the battery is through the red (positive) harness wiring.
The headlamp shell connection was put there on later models so the front indicators (where fitted) had an earth connection to the red return wiring. It's not a headlamp bulb earth as is often thought (that's what the red wiring is for!).


Cheers Les, the wires at the switch had been "modified" by the PO and the White/brown was melted at the light toggle switch and one of the brown/white wires to the ammeter also showed signs of heat and a show of copper.
As I have now broken the ammeter cover(bit of glue should be ok) it has now stopped blowing the fuse but as yet I have not refitted it. But I intend to make further investigations when actually replacing the duff wires.

As for the OPS spoke to a supplier yesterday and he sent me two depending which cover was fitted , one a taper fit. When I withdrew the blanking plug there was alloy trapped in the thread , not a lot , but enough to know bad things will happen. I then fitted the taper thread OPS by hand and then a bit farther with a 7/8 spanner tightening it only with my pinkey as I fully expect it to strip the threads, it in, that's poor when it's wrong threads or worse still not required.

Mystery of the shell solved for future reference.

TT thanks for the link, who knows what I am going to bugger up next, i don't appear to have caused any damage to the cover so it my well be okay.

Thanks again Les , I looked at 68 tr6 / Bonnie on Tuesday and it had an OPS but I'll know the next time, when I get this lot sorted I will get back to the carbs I have changed the damaged carb body and fitted a stay up float and an ally needle, I will also give both pilot jets a probe and see what occurs.

Thanks again gentlemen, I'm going back out to see how many step back I'm going to take this evening.

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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby Triton Thrasher » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:12 pm

As far as I know, "pre-oil pressure light" timing covers are tapped 3/8" Cycle. Not tapered.

Nobody makes pressure switches to fit that. Some switches could be turned down and threaded to fit. A Cycle male to NPT female adaptor could also be made.
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby L.A.B. » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:23 pm

http://www.morgo.co.uk/morgo-oil-pressure-gauge/114-morgo-oil-pressure-gauge-2-way-adaptor-38-bscy.html

Early engines are 3/8" BSCY at 26 TPI and a outside diameter of 0.375" (9.53mm)


That's correct (as it was intended to be a connection for a test gauge, so normally fitted with a 3/8 - 26 blanking plug).

Engines with 1/8" BSP at 28 TPI and a outside diameter of 0.383" (9.73mm)
Later engines have NPT or APP also known as NPS threads at 27 TPI with a outside diameter of 0.390" (9.9mm)



BSA/Triumph twins and triples didn't have 1/8" BSP pressure switches !!!!!!! :? :roll:
Edit: Early oil pressure switches were 1/8" NPT. Later they were NPS (I don't know where they get 'APP' from?)

http://pipeandhose.com/node/19
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:38 pm

The gauge I have fitted is 60-2133 tapered thread, it has an o ring at the base but as it is a fairly tight fit I will leave it till I run the bike and deal with it when (if) it leaks.

The other OPS was 60-3719 again by LS Harris marked on invoice as Veglia is the one for later timing covers apparently.

I have disconected the OPS anyway and all electrics seem to be working however I still have to cut out the damaged wires and replace them. It would have been easier to replace the entire loom and anciliaeys, podtronics and EI at this stage but that's no fun. It probably turn out to be sheer folly but hey ho.

Helicoiled the carb with 2BA seems ok but who knows unless you put fuel through it and use it.

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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:38 pm

Helicoiled the carb with 2BA seems ok but who knows unless you put fuel through it and use it.

Image

Not a thing or great beauty but if it holds , do fine!
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:02 am

I was using the clymer workshop book for wiring diagram ( general export from DU 66246) which showed OPS but across the page under UK ,mine is a US bike ......ignition light clearly shown and I didn't read it.
I can't find my triumph w/m dont know what I've done with it.
My number is DU 7odd

Image

Image

Marked general export section, I was using this unfortunately .

Also the ammeter on inspection has been glued previously so no big deal on that one it's just popped off ,as the old repair has eventually failed under a bit of stress.
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby L.A.B. » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:44 am

auldblue wrote:The gauge I have fitted is 60-2133 tapered thread, it has an o ring at the base but as it is a fairly tight fit I will leave it till I run the bike and deal with it when (if) it leaks.


As long as you understand you could be forcing a 27 TPI tapered thread (which gradually increases in diameter to 0.405") into a 0.375", 26 TPI parallel threaded hole!
If so, and it does begin to leak then the usual instinct would be to tighten the switch some more, maybe resulting in an even bigger leak if/when the cover cracks.

auldblue wrote:60-2133 tapered thread


It has been the subject of much contention and debate elsewhere whether 60-2133 (D2133) is the correct number for the tapered switch but which we needn't go into here.


auldblue wrote:I was using the clymer workshop book for wiring diagram ( general export from DU 66246) which showed OPS but across the page under UK ,mine is a US bike ......ignition light clearly shown and I didn't read it


As far as I'm aware, the oil pressure switch wasn't fitted until the '69 year of any model (so from calendar late '68) and I don't believe there has ever been any disagreement about that.
The "DU66246 Home" and "DU66246 Export" diagrams in my copy of the WSM6 DU66246 manual both show an ignition warning light (green).

Nevertheless, if the blanking plug thread (and assuming also the timing cover thread) is 3/8" - 26 then the cover is not the type intended for an oil pressure switch.
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:00 am

L.A.B. wrote:
auldblue wrote:The gauge I have fitted is 60-2133 tapered thread, it has an o ring at the base but as it is a fairly tight fit I will leave it till I run the bike and deal with it when (if) it leaks.


As long as you understand you could be forcing a 27 TPI tapered thread (which gradually increases in diameter to 0.405") into a 0.375", 26 TPI parallel threaded hole!
If so, and it does begin to leak then the usual instinct would be to tighten the switch some more, maybe resulting in an even bigger leak if/when the cover cracks.

auldblue wrote:60-2133 tapered thread


It has been the subject of much contention and debate elsewhere whether 60-2133 (D2133) is the correct number for the tapered switch but which we needn't go into here.


auldblue wrote:I was using the clymer workshop book for wiring diagram ( general export from DU 66246) which showed OPS but across the page under UK ,mine is a US bike ......ignition light clearly shown and I didn't read it


As far as I'm aware, the oil pressure switch wasn't fitted until the '69 year of any model (so from calendar late '68) and I don't believe there has ever been any disagreement about that.
The "DU66246 Home" and "DU66246 Export" diagrams in my copy of the WSM6 DU66246 manual both show an ignition warning light (green).

Nevertheless, if the blanking plug thread (and assuming also the timing cover thread) is 3/8" - 26 then the cover is not the type intended for an oil pressure switch.


The logical course of action is to remove the OPS now and see if the plug will fit and give an oil tight seal, but I already know the threads on the cover are damaged to what extent I'm not sure . Until taking on board this new ( to me) information, I had presumed that the blanking plug threads were wrong (I've seen it on Commandos) but I will wrap in a bit of PTFE ( not to much) and give it a bash.
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Re: Last train to Glasgow Central..........Last Traaaain....

Postby auldblue » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:01 am

My fathers words to me when I was a lad are ringing in my ears " don't leave the ignition on you'll damage the coil" and I left the bikes ignition on just before meltdown and when I switched it off I felt the coils for heat ,left stone cold , right pretty hot . When I fixed the wires that were melted and put it back with a new ignition switch the left coil was blowing the fuse ,swopped the wires over and still the DS coil . So your initial assessment of coils was bang on Les. Just need a twelve volt coil and a bit of sleeping and tape and back to the engine, unless I have missed something which is entirely possible at the rate I'm going.

At least I am enjoying working on the bike, for me at least it's a bit of fun trying to get it sorted rather than pay someone to do it for you.
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