How often do you shift without using the clutch? Is it bad for a Commando, or does it make for a longer clutch life? ...or does it just not matter?

Longer clutch life, shorter gear life. You can choose which you prefer!

MexicoMike wrote:Longer clutch life, shorter gear life. You can choose which you prefer!

Try this:

http://scottdial.com/transmission-applet

Very cool 3D animation of a 6-speed constant mesh gearbox.

If you get it working be sure to spin it around with your mouse so you can see different angles.

By far most the time be it moderns or AMC. Every clutch pull is one less before it needs servicing. Every clutch pull is that much more effort just to get along.
Learning the zones of operation where its essentially automatic reflex is fun.
If I'm in doubt I'm in right zone for slick shift I'll fudge a clutch pull to avoid grinding gear sounds, be on moderns or ancient AMC.

My P!! had Big Chrome Kill Button on LH bar, you'd rev up half throttle drop clutch front would float to level as WOT reached then at shift points just tap button and shift while holding WOT, front would touch once per button touch then lift to level.
W/o a slick, much more than half throttle got ya nowhere fast.

Other clutch skill is feathering it to keep moving slow under load yet not stall.


hobot

I (almost) never shift without the clutch on the street. The Commando clutch lasts a long time used normally, and clutchless shifting does wear the dogs on the gears more rapidly. When I was racing my Nortons, I sometimes shifted without the clutch in particular situations, but not usually. On the other hand, I know several really good ex Commando racers who regularly shifted without the clutch on upshifts to save time. Still seems to me like a bad idea for a street bike, just from the wear persepctive.

Ken

On my 750 racer, I use the clutch for 1st to 2nd then don't use it for upshifts. I use it for downshifts every time.

I remember a quote from Dave Degens who was in the Barcelona 24 hrs race on one of his Tritons. His partner rider complained that the clutch was too heavy and his wrist was aching after a short stint on the bike, Degens replied " I only use it for starting and stopping"

The only times I've shifted without a clutch is getting home with a broken clutch cable. Twice in 35 years. Still on the original clutch plates.

I am taking notes as to who I would buy a used bike from...Maylar, yes...Hobot, no...LOL

It would have never occured to me to shift without a clutch on purpose! I shift my bike like it was an old truck, giving the thottle a bit of a goose when I down shift. I don't think your clutch life is determined by how many times you use it , but rather what you do when you use it. Over the years I have broken plenty of stuff by using it hard. At this point in my life it doesn't increase my pleasure much. For you guys who are racing, do what you will, but if you are riding on the street, jeepers, buy some crotch rocket if you want to ride like that!

pommie john wrote:On my 750 racer, I use the clutch for 1st to 2nd then don't use it for upshifts. I use it for downshifts every time.

I remember a quote from Dave Degens who was in the Barcelona 24 hrs race on one of his Tritons. His partner rider complained that the clutch was too heavy and his wrist was aching after a short stint on the bike, Degens replied " I only use it for starting and stopping"

I do pretty much the same on the road. It's nothing deliberate, I just use as much clutch as it needs and shifting up after second it's become just a bit of a tweak on the lever but I don't think it actually slips at all, I'll concentrate on it a bit next time I'm out.

I don't believe it does any harm, gears will only engage when they're good and ready it's all very smooth and easy, no force needed.

Rvich, is this Ross or Russ?
What you must realize about my hobot character is that I missed out on wasted youth of wild exuberance on motorcycles being a poor full time student till age 28. Then women, cars, plane, boats and hard drugs were was less risky than big city cycling.
1972-74 had a short taste with P!! dragster but it didn't lean so never learned what fun twisties could be or how to even sit on bike that leaned for control.
So since '99 and my first Combat -instead of lawn mower I went out for],
I've had to pack in real motorcyler's 3-4+ decades experiences in just a few intensive years. P!! short stroke tach was marked @9000 rpm so guess what yo'all missed out on 2000 rpm beyond normal in 280 lb 2" front dropped Norton Twin.
[I will never get over that P!! but have forgotten names of flashy wild women]

As to clutch less shifting its easier on everything, is simple innate skill is developed to match loads on no torque interval it just falls in to next gear no slippage on clanking no wearing down dogs forcing anything. Dump trucks to big tractors, speeding up or slowing down effortless shifting is a delight to aim for.

The main danger is down shifting from hi rpm, drive train shocks, over reving and loss of rear traction doing it from near red line. I know better than to down shift to slow when I'm going harsh enough tarmac is loose as THE Gravel.
So when going for broke I always use throttle to taste power-traction limits before entering a hard turn and always use clutch feathering to taste traction again before full engagement commitment. Sane travel - neither needs nor desires clutch but to start off and stop. It standard knowledge not to hold clutch open at lights but to put in N and let clutch freewheel till green light.

hobot - yo'all may be all used up in the end with pristine cycles but I'm using it all up as much as I can before I'm finished, which could be very next ride.

Captain B wrote:How often do you shift without using the clutch? Is it bad for a Commando, or does it make for a longer clutch life? ...or does it just not matter?

Never. Trying to save the clutch by not using it is like not taking a crap to save on toilet paper or not eating so you don't have to by food and intern save on toilet paper or taking out the middle man by wiping your bum with the dollars you would use to buy toilet paper or.....Sorry ....I'll stop now.

But really, clutch plates are nothing campared to gears. For example 1st gear lay = $150 = 3 sets of friction plates (aprox). That just 1 gear. All those gears are about the same and shafts can be double. Use the clutch, if it wasn't needed there wouldn't be one.

I use it to get off the line, never use it going up, but always on the way down.....sometimes see 8000rpm on the over run on the way down if I'm in a hurry. Same set of plates been in there for 6 seasons (fibre ones). My first Quaife box lasted me 15 years, and it had had 10 years of racing with the previous owner, so 25 years of race use. Can't be bad!

I use the clutch all the time on the Norton with exception of when the clutch nut backed off leaving me sans clutch. Think I bent the forks a little that day as she hasn't been as sweet since. On my KTM I seldom use it after 3'rd on ups, always on down shifts.

Just got to practice clutch-less shifting on my clunky SV650 but AMC are way sweeter.
Its hard to impossible to do 1st-2nd shift unless really low throttle short shifting, but 2 > 6 work fine if you put a tad shift lever pressure on and work throttle smoothly.
Same on downshifts just a tad pressure on shift lever and work throttle smoothly
till can hardly tell there was a shift but for the torque ratio change.
In hottest heat of a race/play I use clutch too, just to make sure on engagement
and to test traction before full clutch release.

hobot

The clutch cable broke on my daily ride 850 mk3 on my way to work in London once.
I had to snick in into neutral just before the red lights, hop off , keep it idling, and when the light went green I pushed it to get it rolling and hooked it into second. Then I could ride normally, well sort of.... No clutch for up or down shifts until I got to work.
It was a bit of a game, but a rather satisfying result that I could get through London rush hour with the use of a clutch. I'm quite proud of that

It's a tribute to the Norton box that you can do that.