Finally, flashers...

Classic Norton Commando Motorcycles.

Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby gtsun » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:57 am

Hey swoosh do you know anyone else who has used that flasher succesfuly? I was having trouble with mine & pvisseriii told me about a modern one from NAPA, part # 552LL and it works great! Why not try one just in case there is something with yours that can't work right with the engine running. If you buy it & it's not the problem I'll buy it from you to keep as a spare. I got mine working for the first time in years & it really is nice to have them. Sometimes even just to tell other rudders of a group a turn is comming up and I like the (maybe false) scense of safety when sitting at a light waiting to turn left I feel a bit safer from some cell phone coma induced driver not seeing me sitting there! Anyway, good luck.

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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:35 am

gtsun wrote:Hey swoosh do you know anyone else who has used that flasher succesfuly? I was having trouble with mine & pvisseriii told me about a modern one from NAPA, part # 552LL and it works great! Why not try one just in case there is something with yours that can't work right with the engine running. If you buy it & it's not the problem I'll buy it from you to keep as a spare. I got mine working for the first time in years & it really is nice to have them. Sometimes even just to tell other rudders of a group a turn is comming up and I like the (maybe false) scense of safety when sitting at a light waiting to turn left I feel a bit safer from some cell phone coma induced driver not seeing me sitting there! Anyway, good luck.


The one in the first picture is electro-mechanical like the NAPA one. It didn't work at all.

The new one is all electronic, and should work. It works when the bike isn't running so it's not "broken".

Probably something goofy in the way I wired it.
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby gtsun » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:30 am

I'm not suggesting it's broken just maybe not compatible for some reason. Electrical stuff is all Voo Doo science to me, I understand the path it follows & the basic stuff but not what's really going on inside those wires & goofy contraptions so I start with things that are known to work togeather. What else is there? Could a short cause those symtoms?

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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:43 pm

gtsun wrote:I'm not suggesting it's broken just maybe not compatible for some reason. Electrical stuff is all Voo Doo science to me, I understand the path it follows & the basic stuff but not what's really going on inside those wires & goofy contraptions so I start with things that are known to work togeather. What else is there? Could a short cause those symtoms?


Yes, a short could cause weird behaviors.
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:02 pm

So my cousin came over with his fancy Fluke and we poked around seeing if there was anything strange we could find that would mess with the flashers.

We didn't find anything unusual.

He took my wiring diagram back to work today and asked his EE for advice. He suggested putting one of these in the system to smooth out the flow to the flashers.

Image
1 amp voltage regulator

You will need some bypass caps across the leads or it won't work.

Put a 0.33uF cap between pins 1 and 2 and put a 0.1uF cap between pins 2 and 3. You could also throw an additional electrolytic cap on the output between pins 2 and 3, something like a 4.7uF, but this may not be necessary if the LEDs aren't pulling much current.

Pin 1 is on the left side if you are looking at the front of the transistor.

See page 23 for cap connections:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/KA/KA7805E.pdf


I had assumed that the job of the battery was to do this. This sounds way too complicated, but just what I'd expect from an EE. :mrgreen:

Thoughts?
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:40 am

Popped some resister plugs in (BPR7ES) and from what I can tell the flashers now work when the bike is running. Still have non-resistor copper spark plug wires but that doesn't seem to matter.
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby rpatton » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:47 pm

Dave,
Is EL12L1 the part number on the second flasher? NAPA has it down as Electo-Mechanical, if it is, I don't see how it would matter.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Resul ... lasher&N=0

I just started to put the flasher setup back together after going without for a few years. Today I hooked it up and the lights just stayed lit up, no flash. Stock flasher, used to work before I took them off.? What's the difference between 2, 3, and 4 terminal flashers? Can you use an LED flasher with incandescent bulbs? Maybe this has been covered before but I can't find it.
Thanks,
Bob

'73 Interstate
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:15 pm

Do you have resistor plugs?
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby rpatton » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Yep, but I think I had them when I took the flashers off.

P.S. this is happening with the engine off.
Bob

'73 Interstate
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:37 am

rpatton wrote:Yep, but I think I had them when I took the flashers off.

P.S. this is happening with the engine off.


Did you ground the pigtail? Photo of your installation?
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby rpatton » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:41 pm

This is still with the stock flasher. I'll be going to NAPA tomorrow to see what they have in stock. My hunch is that I've got some marginal connection that that's getting current to the flasher but not enough to power up the mechanical flasher. I checked the connections with a voltmeter and they seem to be ok but voltage and current are two different things, so maybe a marginal connection somewhere. Maybe an electrical flasher won't be affected.
Bob

'73 Interstate
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby swooshdave » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:55 am

rpatton wrote:This is still with the stock flasher. I'll be going to NAPA tomorrow to see what they have in stock. My hunch is that I've got some marginal connection that that's getting current to the flasher but not enough to power up the mechanical flasher. I checked the connections with a voltmeter and they seem to be ok but voltage and current are two different things, so maybe a marginal connection somewhere. Maybe an electrical flasher won't be affected.


Stock flasher wont work with LEDs.
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby hobot » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:32 am

There are lots of motorcycle only LED flasher units to shop for after a few online reviews of their applications and how so many have already done this, minus the polarity issue of course. Full kits have this build into the brain box voltage converts and often polarity switch or terminals for our backwards wired bikes.
Throw yourself at the ground and miss!
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby maylar » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:57 am

swooshdave wrote:I had assumed that the job of the battery was to do this. This sounds way too complicated, but just what I'd expect from an EE. :mrgreen:

Thoughts?


Agreed. Way overkill and not the problem here. From another EE...

Standard flashers work by sensing the current through the bulbs. The current causes a bimetalic strip to heat up and bend, breaking the connection. When it cools off the connection is made again. LEDs don't draw enough current to heat the strip. So they stay on all the time.

Electronic flashers use an oscillator circuit and a relay. Blink rate is independant of lamp load. But like any electronics they can be sensitive to ground polarity. So, choose your flasher carefully.
Dave from CT
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Re: Finally, flashers...

Postby DogT » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:46 pm

It would be real easy for a few bucks to make a flasher out of a 555 timer some components and a relay. Only trouble with the 555 is the first time discharge is longer than the rest, but that can be compensated for. Wouldn't matter incandescent, fluorescent, or LED. I'm not sure that voltage reg ic would do anything.

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