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Eye candy

Classic Norton Commando Motorcycles.

Eye candy

Postby grandpaul » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

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Paul Z Estart 017small.jpg
Spyke starter upgrade
Paul Z Estart 017small.jpg (83.74 KiB) Viewed 2137 times
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Re: Eye candy

Postby madass140 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:29 pm

ohh, a la HD
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Re: Eye candy

Postby grandpaul » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:31 pm

A' la VR!
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Re: Eye candy

Postby madass140 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:36 pm

with clutch and alternator, pics please Paul
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Re: Eye candy

Postby madass140 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:21 pm

my rough calculation shows the idler bearing will be 3 x rpm of the engine. would that be correct?
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Re: Eye candy

Postby robs ss » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:46 am

Nice unit
Is belt tension achieved by the conventional gearbox movement?
If so, why the bottom idler? I can see it marginally increases the "wrap", and hence torque capacity, on the pulleys but at some cost of reducing belt life.
Am I missing something?
Keep up the great work
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Re: Eye candy

Postby concours » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:12 am

robs ss wrote:Nice unit
Is belt tension achieved by the conventional gearbox movement?
If so, why the bottom idler? I can see it marginally increases the "wrap", and hence torque capacity, on the pulleys but at some cost of reducing belt life.
Am I missing something?
Keep up the great work
Cheers
Rob


I expect, due to starter/ring gear alignment, the trans must now be kept stationary.
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Re: Eye candy

Postby grandpaul » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:58 am

This is a new fit-up of the Kenny Dreer VR880 Norvil belt drive setup with Spyke (HD) starter. Ring gear is carefully mated to the clutch basket, NO intermediate parts whatsoever; OEM alternator (or original style aftermarket unit).

Old Britts has offered the belt tensioner for years; yes, the longer belt is a plus. I don't believe the sealed bearings on the tensioner have ever been an issue.

Used the MkIII or modified earlier transmission cradle; in this case, my Dreer copy "big bearing" conversion using sealed steering bearings and an upgraded spindle that is very easily extracted from the timing side. All fits in SLIGHTLY less space than the original swingarm behind the primary case, so no wearing a big round patch into the backside of the inner case from rubbing.

This solution has been well proven in the VR880s over the years, and I'm really surprised there aren't more of them being done this way. Definitely less complicated than the other options...

(of course, there will be a rebuttal in no time at all)
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Re: Eye candy

Postby madass140 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:16 am

so, not operational yet Paul, I'm very interested as I'm sure many others are, when can we expect testing results?
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Re: Eye candy

Postby Nater_Potater » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:55 am

madass140 wrote:ohh, a la HD

Don't you mean "Oo-la-la"? :wink:

With the inherent dimensional inconsistencies with the sand-cast primary inner, how much fettling has to be done to the pulley's landing pad to avoid belt crawl? Or, does it even really affect it, since it's on the slack side?

That looks like a very clean installation!

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Re: Eye candy

Postby Mark » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:09 am

Uncomplicated........ I like it!

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Re: Eye candy

Postby grandpaul » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:38 am

As I said, Kenny Dreer pretty much perfected this setup over more than a dozen units.
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Re: Eye candy

Postby baldy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:12 pm

Hey Grandpaul,

I am building a similar Kenny Dreer/QPD starter setup. What does the connection of the starter to the engine cradle look like?

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Re: Eye candy

Postby madass140 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:49 pm

Paul, I guess the reason this setup is not produced in numbers is because each inner primary cover and maybe cradle has to be set up individually for each belt drive etc
But for one offs I think its a great concept, nice and simple.
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Re: Eye candy

Postby grandpaul » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:55 pm

madass140 wrote:Paul, I guess the reason this setup is not produced in numbers is because each inner primary cover and maybe cradle has to be set up individually for each belt drive etc. But for one offs I think its a great concept, nice and simple.


That's true, in order for the system to work without rapid parts wear or failure, the inner primary, transmission case, clutch basket, and transmission cradle all need to be modified to a degree.

Then, the mainshaft and it's bearings, and clutch center with it's bearing, need to be fitted up.

The ring gear is aligned to the clutch basket mounted on the center, then the basket is machined and joined to the ring gear.

After that, it's all assembled together with the starter, and final adjustments are made to the modifications as required for a good final fit. The starter is tested repeatedly for proper engagement with proper clearance and interface with the rotating basket assembly.

A final adjustment on the belt tensioner is needed after the whole affair is re-installed in the chassis with the power unit (the part I have yet to do when everything gets back here from the machinist).

As it turns out, there were around 35 of these VR starter kits fitted, over a dozen of which the machinist was directly involved with, mostly with incorporating much of the above final fitment and correction under warranty. I'm at a bit of an advantage over all the VR owners, as I'm getting the total package fitted up as a complete matched assembly.

baldy, my understanding is that the QPD setup is significantly different from the Norvil setup that I'm using. Kenny switched from QPD to Norvil mid-stream, I believe (due to issues with the early ones, many of which the machinist corrected). The cradle needs cut-outs and lugs welded in place, and the Spyke starter needs an adapter plate. The transmission case needs a bit of relief at the top mounting boss, to allow for the starter body to clear. Of course, the inner primary needs a window cut out for the starter nose.
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