Electronic Ignitions

Classic Norton Commando Motorcycles.

Electronic Ignitions

Postby Bob_in_PA » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:48 am

Any advice on what the best electronic ignition available now for my 71 Commando? I have had a Boyer for 25 years. It's been ok, but gets cranky when my battery gets weak. It just gave up the ghost, I think. But no complaints, I got my monies worth!

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby MexicoMike » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:53 am

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby Gino Rondelli » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:10 am

Just converted 3 of my Commando's from Boyer to Pazon, cheaper than most and seems to be good quality kit, main reason for converting was the ability to still work at lower voltages.

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby Tintin » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:11 am

Bob_in_PA wrote:Any advice on what the best electronic ignition available now for my 71 Commando? I have had a Boyer for 25 years. It's been ok, but gets cranky when my battery gets weak. It just gave up the ghost, I think. But no complaints, I got my monies worth!


Rather expensive but worth the extra: http://elektronik-sachse.de/ZDG3/t100/zdg_t100_en.htm

It comes with 9 ignition curves. Quote from the ZDG3-website "It is also possible to program ignition curves to customers' specifications." AFAIK he now uses hall sensors and no otical ones anymore.

EDIT: There is also a "lite" version which is more comparable to Boyers etc. as it only has three ign curves to chose from and on the other end there is a twin-channel version which sports single-fire.


Tim
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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby Bob_in_PA » Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:55 pm

Thanks for the excellent advice. Any comments on the latest Boyers?

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby Paul1972 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:24 pm

I can also recommend the Trispark twin system and the customer service is fantastic. There is no extra box of electrics like the boyer.
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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby B+Bogus » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:40 pm

I've just this minute returned from wiring up a Trispark (yes....the MkIIA is almost finished :mrgreen: )
Couldn't have been more simple - a single unit in the points casing, set the static point (28 deg BTDC*) and turn the stator plate until the light comes on.
Ready for strobing in no time flat!

* I've also heard 32 degrees quoted, but can't comment yet on which one works best.

I have a Boyer on my T140 and have no plans to replace it yet - if it lets go then another Trispark may be on the cards, but it's been good so far.
The main benefit would be getting my tool tray back!
Cheers,

Andy

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1964 650SS CR project
1971 Production Racer project in progress
1975 Ducati 900ss x2
1976 Triumph Bonneville
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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby Jeandr » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:35 pm

Tintin wrote:
Bob_in_PA wrote:Any advice on what the best electronic ignition available now for my 71 Commando? I have had a Boyer for 25 years. It's been ok, but gets cranky when my battery gets weak. It just gave up the ghost, I think. But no complaints, I got my monies worth!


Rather expensive but worth the extra: http://elektronik-sachse.de/ZDG3/t100/zdg_t100_en.htm

It comes with 9 ignition curves. Quote from the ZDG3-website "It is also possible to program ignition curves to customers' specifications." AFAIK he now uses hall sensors and no otical ones anymore.

EDIT: There is also a "lite" version which is more comparable to Boyers etc. as it only has three ign curves to chose from and on the other end there is a twin-channel version which sports single-fire.


Tim


I have one on my café, but in the future, I think I will opt for a bit more programmability with an Ignitech, take a look at this thread electronic-versus-contacts-t6003.html?hilit= ignition for a link

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby MexicoMike » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:56 am

Programability is fine but unless you have computer control and sensors to monitor the engine parameters like modern cars, the system cannot respond in real time to changing operating conditions. Basically, you are just selecting a fixed advance curve that MIGHT be better than oem in some conditions but not as good in others. This is no different than what Boyer, Rita, Pazon, Trispark, or the oem points/AAU does. THe only difference is you select the curve instead of them selecting it for you. But how will you determine what curve to utilize and whether it will be superior to existing systems? I suspect if you do the dyno work, you would find that the oem points/AAU curve is pretty close to what you want...
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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby Jeandr » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:13 am

MexicoMike wrote:Programability is fine but unless you have computer control and sensors to monitor the engine parameters like modern cars, the system cannot respond in real time to changing operating conditions. Basically, you are just selecting a fixed advance curve that MIGHT be better than oem in some conditions but not as good in others. This is no different than what Boyer, Rita, Pazon, Trispark, or the oem points/AAU does. THe only difference is you select the curve instead of them selecting it for you. But how will you determine what curve to utilize and whether it will be superior to existing systems? I suspect if you do the dyno work, you would find that the oem points/AAU curve is pretty close to what you want...


True for curves, but as far as I know, only the Sachse offers a zero degree advance at kicking speeds (<400 RPM), the Tri Spark is supposed to offer that too, but it has a few degrees of advance at kicking speeds. The advantage of the Ignitech is that any advance curve can be programmed with ease. For mere mortals, the advance curve that works the best deals mostly with starting the bike and this is why *I* am looking for something other than a Boyer or points.

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby MexicoMike » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:31 am

I am very impressed with the Trispark in this regard. You are right that it does have a few degrees of advance at starting speed but it has less than 1/2 what the Boyer does according to the plotted curves. Because of that I've found that the Trispark can provide more advance at WOT without kicking back on start. Here, at 7400ft altitude, that really helps performance (I discovered that advancing timing at higher altitude brings back a bit of the power). On the Commando, you loose about 11-12HP at this altitude compared to sea level. I have my trispark set at 32 degrees of max advance but when I tried that with the Boyer, it was deadly to kickstart! ;)
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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby rick in seattle » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:25 am

Pazon Sure-Fire electronic ignitions for Norton Commandos produce ZERO degrees of advance for engine speeds below 500 rpm. The advance curve rises smoothly to 31 degrees at 5000 rpm, where it is essentially flat. The curves for Brit bikes are shown in the link below:

http://www.pazon.com/files/PDF/PA2.pdf

The company claims reliable operation down to 8 volts. I've been running their units on both my 1970 BSA Victor and my Norton Mk3 for a year or so. The Pazon EI transformed the Victor from a sour 20-kick bastard to a sweet 2-kick wonder. The OEM points are currently at the bottom of Lake Washington.

Like Boyer, Pazon units use a small module that must be mounted on the bike. From a cosmetic point of view, the TriStar offers the advantage of residing in the timing case. Functionally, I believe that the Pazon Sure-Fire advance curve is perfect for a street bike, and really can't see an advantage here for TriStar. The Pazon unit can be ordered directly (10 days to your door) at a substantial cost savings compared to TriStar.
Rick in Seattle

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby MexicoMike » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:04 am

"Functionally, I believe that the Pazon Sure-Fire advance curve is perfect for a street bike, and really can't see an advantage here for TriStar. "

I looked at very hard at all the electronic ign options before deciding on the Trispark. ( I already knew I didn't like the Boyer at all and had replaced it with the oem points/AAU) The deciding factors for me choosing the Trispark were: the advance is all-in at 3800 RPM which will provide a bit more midrange over competing E-ignitions; the one-piece unit is a neater setup; it will operate (per Trispark) down to 7v (mine has functioned fine down to 9, the Boyer got jittery at 12.)
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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby ludwig » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:44 am

I posted this before , but a while ago I plotted the advance curve of a Trispark :
Image

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Re: Electronic Ignitions

Postby MexicoMike » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:53 pm

Yep, that's the curve I remember from my research!
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