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Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby Danno » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:58 am

The fact that climate change is slow and oscillating is taken advantage of by the flat-earthers and deniers. The facts are, we are contributing to it if not driving it and anything we can do to mitigate that will be good for humanity in the long run.

Alternative facts are whatever you want to believe to the contrary of reality. Just go with whatever takes the least amount of investment and effort and kick the climate can down the road for future generations to deal with.

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby bill » Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:30 am

I am not saying we should continue to crap in our drinking pool and USA and most of the modern countrys have gone a long way to clean up our act. country's like India and china have a long way to go and it should be persued even it means stopping trade with them but we can not stop living our lives by going back to bicycles and living caves. another pet peve is SELLING carbon credits as it only will make some people rich and let others continue to crap in the pool. like I stated IMHO we have less input than than the fear mongers push and you do have to do an whole earth average not just a small spot hear and there as climate changes at just one sample location from year to year and decade to decade.
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby Rohan » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:47 pm

bill wrote: and you do have to do an whole earth average not just a small spot hear and there as climate changes at just one sample location from year to year and decade to decade.


Yes, but you have to know a LOT about averages to understand what averages mean. !

It has been quoted that a 2 degree AVERAGE rise in the earths temps is liable to mean about 10 degrees most places. Since a 2 degrees rise means 2 degrees each and every day, on every place on earth. And thats not going to happen, common ole weather is just too variable for that.

AND, if summers are 10 degrees hotter than average and winters are 10 degrees colder, on average nothing has changed. If summers are 10 degrees cooler than average, and winters are 10 degrees warmer, on average nothing has changed. Meanwhile, you still have the average local weather, unchanged, and its still average.
Thats a lot of average averages !!!, does the average punter understand that ?

And, are we quoting air temps here - which are transient on a daily basis.
(all the 'spare' heat radiates back into space at night)
Or sea temps, which are much more indicative of rising global temp accumulations.
If the average sea temps rise by say 2 degrees, what has the average global temp risen by ??
Does the article you referred to previously even reference that ?

BTW, China and India are both doing way more about clean energy than most. China has by far the most solar, and that new 3 gorges hydro is massive. They may be starting from a low base, but the projected expenditure is huge - watch this space ? Besides, the pall of atmospheric pollution is keeping global heating seriously at bay, not to mention the brown layer of jet haze at 35,000 ft....

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby acotrel » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:56 pm

Common misconception in thermodynamics is the difference between temperature and heat content. If global temperatures rise by 2 degrees on average the difference in heat content is immense. It is the temperature gradients which cause most of the damage. The weather systems become much more energetic, so storm damage will be much greater.
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby acotrel » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:01 pm

I once showed my boss what happens when you put a block of dry ice into a muffle furnace at 1400 deg. centigrade. He laughed when I suggested doing it and he was wrong about what happens. If you haven't seen it, it is worth doing. CO2 is an excellent insulator.
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby bill » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:26 pm

here is more to ponder than just green house gas's causing climate change. below is an excerpt from the link below it.

Earth's magnetic field, which protects the planet from huge blasts of deadly solar radiation, has been weakening over the past six months, according to data collected by a European Space Agency (ESA) satellite array called Swarm.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -expected/
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby Rohan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:05 am

Thats actually fairly old news, so the sky hasn''t fallen yet.

Not much that Mr Trump/mankind can do about it anyway. !
Its been said for quite some while that we are (over)due for a magnetic reversal,
just hope your not on a plane when it happens, or who knows where it might end up !

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby Rohan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:11 am

acotrel wrote: If global temperatures rise by 2 degrees on average the difference in heat content is immense.


We wonder how many politicians and climate commentators actually know that to any depth of understanding ??

Its not generally appreciated that adding heat/energy to an unstable (weather) system can produce extreme cold spells and heavy snowfalls either, folks seem to think thats an indication that climate change isn't happening,
or that its not part of the bigger picture... ??

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby xbacksideslider » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:45 pm

Inconvenient truth in an inconvenient video -

https://www.youtube.com/embed/BC1l4geSTP8
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby DonOR » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:14 am

So, basically this is the argument;

1. for 100 years, we've been dumping way too much Co2 into the atmosphere, and the troubles we're seeing now are only a glimpse of what our children will face. (ice caps are melting, no alternative facts can contradict that), and there's an overwhelming scientific consensus supporting climate change.

2. that evidence is inconclusive, there are other opinions, its God's will, and nothing can change that!

WHAT IF WE ACT ON #1 ABOVE, AND WE ARE WRONG? deniers, please answer that question alone, and consider what may be at stake.
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby Danno » Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:12 am

DonOR wrote:So, basically this is the argument;

1. for 100 years, we've been dumping way too much Co2 into the atmosphere, and the troubles we're seeing now are only a glimpse of what our children will face.

WHAT IF WE ACT ON #1 ABOVE, AND WE ARE WRONG? deniers, please answer that question alone, and consider what may be at stake.


Some greedy bastards will lose some profit. A slight rise in cost may move people to use less energy. Those sorts of horrible outcomes.

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby xbacksideslider » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:15 pm

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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby bill » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:44 pm

it is amazing the ones that preach tolerance are the least tolerant. the protesters at the inauguration destroyed public property and the limo that they burnt was owned by a Muslim business man just trying to make a living.

xbacksideslider wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf008xA1x1Q

More love and tolerance.
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby xbacksideslider » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:22 pm

Love, tolerance, open minds, diversity - NOT

Riots shut down speech at the home of the "free speech movement" - UC Berkeley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=025HRyYRgFs


“hypocrisy is the homage which vice pays to virtue.”
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Re: Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Postby acotrel » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:08 pm

Why would anyone protest against Donald Trump AFTER he has been elected, unless they had no perception of the risk BEFORE they voted ?
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