Willh,
I agree w/ you if Bucannan sent me a wheel looking like that at todays prices,
I would be sending it back and telling them how sorry their service is.
I can't believe they drilled that far off center of the dimple.
I would not expect a customer to accept this kind of work if I was in the trade.
They should have seen how off line the drillings were and called or emailed you
and advised you of the results and suggested a rim w/o dimpling.
Now if Wolverhampton in their heyday could drill the pattern correctly why can't they get it right today?
If excell had incorrectly placed the dimples then you don't use it for a commando - that simple.
I was shocked to see such mounted up like that.
Marshal

MarshalNorton wrote:Willh,
I agree w/ you if Bucannan sent me a wheel looking like that at todays prices,
I would be sending it back and telling them how sorry their service is.
I can't believe they drilled that far off center of the dimple.
I would not expect a customer to accept this kind of work if I was in the trade.
They should have seen how off line the drillings were and called or emailed you
and advised you of the results and suggested a rim w/o dimpling.
Now if Wolverhampton in their heyday could drill the pattern correctly why can't they get it right today?
If excell had incorrectly placed the dimples then you don't use it for a commando - that simple.
I was shocked to see such mounted up like that.
Marshal

With the exception of buying Sun rims,( no dimples), I have taken my business elsewhere. Latest project will run '70s aluminum mags.

If it's any consolation Willh, I have an exell 18' rim laced to a 75 rear disc hub and it is identical. I bought it used so I don't know who did it. It came with one bent spoke and some loose ones. I think the problem is with the increased spoke angle needed for the 18" rim. You can see the old wear pattern from the original 19" rim on the hub.



Looking from the inside you can see they had very little room to move the hole over to center without having the shoulder of the nipple contact the side of the dimple. I think who ever tries to lace this hub to this rim will be up against the same problem. Sometimes you just have to fudge it. (Keep in mind this photo is much larger than actual scale so it's hard to judge but there is very little room to drill closer to center here)

Yes. sp apparently no one is making rims with enough dimple room nor
drill rigs capable of matching the Norton weird wheel.

Glup if almost reaching dimple rim is pause for comment, glup
Ms Peel's 19" front has them over hanging dimple edges and
causing most my trouble to seal them I think.
I was pleased I did not have to trim spokes once wheel done.
They either ended up ~1/16" deep or 1/32" proud.
So right spokes for supplied rim. I quizzed various vendors and builders
like flat trackers and MX bikes, to have my concerns relieved
to run the snot out of it.

Main deal is the bend is at the ends and not d/t crossed spokes
in a bind.

Norton spoke pattern is considered about the strongest
with 3 spoke crossings and spokes arranged at the tangent
to hub not radially. Crosses in hub rim lip count.
On this rim the spoke bow was at exits from nipple threads.

snakehips wrote:

L.A.B. wrote:

snakehips wrote:It also looks from the picture that the spokes are the same gauge on each side. A disk front wheel should have heavier gauge spokes on one side.

Originally, yes, but it's unlikely a wheelbuilder would go to the trouble-especially for a non-standard rim.

My wheelbuilder did and I would expect any wheelbuilder to build it with the correct specification parts unless of course you are saying Norton need not have done that in the first place?

Then you have an exceptional wheelbuilder-by modern standards-that is.

As the modern trend is to use stainless spokes, then "original" factory spec. is no longer relevant, presumably your wheelbuilder refuses to use them?

willh wrote:I know you guys are talking about fronts but my rear disk wheel, Excel 18" drilled by Buchanan s bowed spokes. Worse than that, the drilling was barely in the dimples on some of them. Made for a very ugly wheel.

The MkIII rear disc rims had a 3 x 1 (3 - left, then 1 - right) dimple pattern, presumably that pattern isn't always easily sourced-especially where alloy rims are concerned, so is no doubt why the drillings are on the very edges of the dimples, and the spokes still end up bowed as a result of the drillings not being exactly right?

L.A.B. wrote:The MkIII rear disc rims had a 3 x 1 (3 - left, then 1 - right) dimple pattern, presumably that pattern isn't always easily sourced-especially where alloy rims are concerned,

Perhaps that explains these markings on the inside of my rim (rear again). The spokes would have to go the same direction as the outer spokes but on a much lesser angle and they would still cross the outside spokes (or rather the radically angled outer spokes would cross them). I was trying to make sense of those wear marks.

RennieK wrote:If it's any consolation Willh, I have an exell 18' rim laced to a 75 rear disc hub and it is identical. I bought it used so I don't know who did it. It came with one bent spoke and some loose ones. I think the problem is with the increased spoke angle needed for the 18" rim. You can see the old wear pattern from the original 19" rim on the hub.



Looking from the inside you can see they had very little room to move the hole over to center without having the shoulder of the nipple contact the side of the dimple. I think who ever tries to lace this hub to this rim will be up against the same problem. Sometimes you just have to fudge it. (Keep in mind this photo is much larger than actual scale so it's hard to judge but there is very little room to drill closer to center here)

Hi Rennie,

Those wear marks might have been from the 16" rim that had been on it when I bought it 15+ years ago. Then it wore a 19" standard rim for 2 years, followed by the 18" witch you bought of ebay.

Willh, AKA WillNorton850 on ebay

RennieK wrote:

L.A.B. wrote:The MkIII rear disc rims had a 3 x 1 (3 - left, then 1 - right) dimple pattern, presumably that pattern isn't always easily sourced-especially where alloy rims are concerned,

Perhaps that explains these markings on the inside of my rim (rear again). The spokes would have to go the same direction as the outer spokes but on a much lesser angle and they would still cross the outside spokes (or rather the radically angled outer spokes would cross them). I was trying to make sense of those wear marks.

I can't see there's any way spokes could have left that pattern of witness marks in normal use?

I thought maybe those marks could have been made by somebody cutting through the spokes with a hand tool (bolt croppers or an angle grinder?) but the marks appear be too uniformly made? Or maybe a certain number of spokes broke at that point, (although maybe not all at the same time?), and the broken ends made those score marks.

L.A.B. wrote:

RennieK wrote:

L.A.B. wrote:The MkIII rear disc rims had a 3 x 1 (3 - left, then 1 - right) dimple pattern, presumably that pattern isn't always easily sourced-especially where alloy rims are concerned,

Perhaps that explains these markings on the inside of my rim (rear again). The spokes would have to go the same direction as the outer spokes but on a much lesser angle and they would still cross the outside spokes (or rather the radically angled outer spokes would cross them). I was trying to make sense of those wear marks.

I can't see there's any way spokes could have left that pattern of witness marks in normal use?

I thought maybe those marks could have been made by somebody cutting through the spokes with a hand tool (bolt croppers or an angle grinder?) but the marks appear be too uniformly made? Or maybe a certain number of spokes broke at that point, (although maybe not all at the same time?), and the broken ends made those score marks.

I can't help answer where they came from. They were there when I bought it.
Like I said, it was wearing a Harley Davidson 16" rim, and drilled for solid axle when I took possession, it had seen some abuse.

The wheels Buchanan did for me were perfect and flawless. The holes drilled into the dimples are not on the edge like in the pictures posted. MKIII with shouldered/dimpled Excel rims. No problems here......for once.

Coco wrote:The wheels Buchanan did for me were perfect and flawless. The holes drilled into the dimples are not on the edge like in the pictures posted. MKIII with shouldered/dimpled Excel rims. No problems here......for once.

I'm glad to here that. I was less than satisfied when they did my MK111 rear in 1999. It left a lasting impression on me. I'll stick with Sun rims, no dimples.
Do the shouldered Excel rims have different dimpling?

Coco wrote:The wheels Buchanan did for me were perfect and flawless. The holes drilled into the dimples are not on the edge like in the pictures posted. MKIII with shouldered/dimpled Excel rims. No problems here......for once.

+1

I saw Coco's rims when they were at CNW, they are perfect. I've got the same set on a bike to be delivered this month that are perfect, the set I used on a previous build were perfect, and the original Akronts that Buchannans did back in the early 80s and freshened up about 5 years ago on my personal bike are perfect.

Long story short, I'd never trust anyone other than Buchannans to build a set of wheels.

builder wrote:
Long story short, I'd never trust anyone other than Buchannans to build a set of wheels.

Yeah, they'll be doing my wheels for a Triumph project when I get the cash. 21" shouldered Akront up front and an 18" shouldered Akront WM4 out back. It's a mish mash of brands and years so we'll see how they do. Front wheel is going into a set of Harley narrow glide forks and the rear is an old Triumph cotton spool hub all together with a '73 motor and '70 frame.

I'd sure call CNW and Buchanan to find out what they do to avoid
bowed spokes on final nip up with everything coming out
the right length and well trued and centered.

On Peel's rear wheel the 1st set of spokes were too thin a gauge.
Replacement set required me to drill out Excel rim holes
to get new nipple to fit thru well. I gave some thought to
the aim of the drill bit. But rear wheel has spokes at same
angle to rim, not 2 rows vertical and other 2 row leaned a bunch.

I found hub witness marks on my factory assembled wheels.
These helped me get the new spoke rows oriented as original.
Only time witness marks are not seen on long used hubs
is if they have been sanded/polished out enough new spokes
cover them.

hobot