Welcome to the Access Norton Forum. Login as a VIP member to remove the advertising banners.


Crankcase Breather Kit

Modern 961 Norton Commando Motorcycles

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby BritTwit » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:30 am

nopdog wrote:I did do 180km for a few minutes maybe that contributed to the oil over filling the perfume bottle. But it shouldn't.
I have ridden it for about 10ks this afternoon with no oil in bottle.

Simon


Even at 180kph, if the breather is designed properly there should be no problems.
I'm taking my 961 into the shop tomorrow to have the breather kit installed.
Once I have the bike back it will get a thorough thrashing.
I often ride with my sportbike buddies at or slightly above an indicate 90mph for extended periods.
I'll see how the new breather changes effect the airbox "lubrication."
1975 850 MKIII Commando
2013 961 Commando Cafe Racer
2006 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Ducati 999
User avatar

BritTwit
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby nopdog » Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:33 am

Dipstick.
From bottom thread to end 154mm.
From bottom thread to full 105mm.
To low level 130mm.
Is this the new type?
Simon

nopdog
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:51 pm
Location: Bawley Point NSW Australia

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby comet » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:52 am

nopdog wrote:Dipstick.
From bottom thread to end 154mm.
From bottom thread to full 105mm.
To low level 130mm.
Is this the new type?
Simon


I asked the factory that question earlier this year. The measurements you noted (155/105/130) are what they said was the later (longer) dipstick. My equivalent measurements (2013) are 120/90/115 which I was told are the original measurements. Others had reported measurements of 110/80/105 although when I mentioned this I was told the factory hadn't used one of that length. Maybe the person I spoke to wasn't around at that time....

So overall there's a difference of 25mm for the high/low levels between the longest and shortest dipsticks. I don't know what that translates to in terms of oil volume. The low reading on the shortest dipstick would be the high reading on the latest one.
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
comet
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:48 pm
Location: Gatwick, England

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby nopdog » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:04 am

Thanks Comet
Good to know.
Simon

nopdog
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:51 pm
Location: Bawley Point NSW Australia

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby BritTwit » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:09 pm

I Just got my 961 CR back from the dealer with the breather kit installed.
All the new bits certainly don’t do much to improve the bike’s appearance though.
The factory kit included the wrong size crimp clamps for the oil tank feed line check valve.
Dealer used radiator clamps instead.
Also the sump screen furnished in the kit was damaged so Norton has to send a new one.
I’ll have to bring the bike back to the dealer to fit it up.

Oil cooler inline check valve
ImageHosted on Fotki

Air-Oil Separator and Oil tank line check valve
ImageHosted on Fotki

I was also concerned about any possible leaks with all the new connections in the oil lines.
Everything went well without any leaks or problems.
Anyway, I got a chance to push the bike some on the way back from the dealer.
Full power acceleration through the gears to a little over 80mph several times.
The oil drain bottle is completely dry.

I’ll let the bike sit for a few days, then start it up to see if any oil is forced from the crankcase breather into the airbox.

So far, So good.
1975 850 MKIII Commando
2013 961 Commando Cafe Racer
2006 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Ducati 999
User avatar

BritTwit
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby pingu-nz » Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:22 pm

BritTwit

Interesting photo ,

Your bike has just come back from air-box fix,there must be different kits or interpretations of how the separator is installed as mine is completely opposite to yours,
So which one is correct ?



Image

pingu-nz
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:10 am
Location: Gold Coast Australia

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby contours » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:17 am

Wow - not all that attractive, is it?! :o

Okay, I have been reading these posts with interest and will now admit I was (or still am) confused by what folks are calling this thing. Am I correct in assuming the crankcase breather kit is essentially the oil-in-the-airbox fix? :? In my case I don't view this issue as critical. Maybe after another 1000 miles it could get worse, but emptying the bottle after 2 or 3 rides is not a hassle. And I've never seen oil in my airbox.

Peter
2015 Norton 961 Sport
2013 H-D XL883N
2006 Triumph Speed Triple 1050
2003 Triumph Daytona 955i (sold)
1975 Norton 850 Commando Mk3
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
contours
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 624
View Photo Album - Images: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:39 pm
Location: Readsboro, VT

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby cehenard » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:16 am

Brit Twit,
Thanks for your post, you've hopefully solved a little problem of mine. I did all of the updates to my 2014 961 SF and they were pretty simple however, the hose from the oil tank to the oil pump that gets the in line check valve spliced into it, has a very slight leak. Not wanting oil spraying on the hot engine, pipes, and misting all over the back of the bike while I ride, this was not acceptable so until fixed, the bike (once again) is sitting and I'm riding others. I put three different crimp clamps on the hose. Ordered a new crimping tool for those type clamps, and still can't stop the leak. I just assumed the nipple fitting inside the hose must have a hairline crack in it so I ordered a new check valve and I'm now waiting again. Thanks for the tip, never thought they'd furnish an in line fitting that was too small to fit tight in the hose. I'll be putting a different type clamp on it.
Thanks, Charlie
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
cehenard
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby BritTwit » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:24 am

pingu-nz wrote:BritTwit

Interesting photo ,

Your bike has just come back from air-box fix,there must be different kits or interpretations of how the separator is installed as mine is completely opposite to yours,
So which one is correct ?



Paul,
It appears that your breather hose to the air-oil separator and the other hose from the separator to the airbox are just a different shape from mine.
Because of this your separator sits further back closer to the airbox than mine does.
This may be a recent revision to the kit.
I made certain the dealer installed the kit as per the instructions and photos in the Norton bulletin.

There were even things in the kit that were not mentioned in the instruction bulletin.
Like the strainer/check valve that had to be inserted in the oil line between the oil tank and the rear inlet to the oil pump.
My Dealer had to contact Kevin to find out how it was supposed to be installed.
Seems the breather kit is updated with improvements from time to time, but the installation bulletin doesn’t always get updated to include those changes.
Also the two crimp clamps furnished for the strainer/check valve were the wrong size 13-15. Should have been 15-18.
The factory is sending the dealer 2 new clamps, and a new sump strainer.
The one in my kit was damaged.

The concern I have with this arrangement of check valves in the oil line is that I will have to cut the crimp clamps every time I do an oil change to remove the check valves and drain all of the old oil.
Then the dealer will have to have correct size crimp clamps to reconnect the valves.
I don’t even have a crimping tool for these clamps.
The proof of the pudding will be once I can get the bike out to a nice road and give it a good flogging and see no oil in the catch bottle.
I did ride it back from the dealer – about 25 miles, and found no oil in the bottle.

The installed changes are like pimples on the face of a super model.
If these changes do the job, then I’ll learn to live with the new aesthetics.
1975 850 MKIII Commando
2013 961 Commando Cafe Racer
2006 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Ducati 999
User avatar

BritTwit
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby Raphi » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:32 pm

I am very happy that I don't need this...
I just have a plug at the end of the tube from airbox and empty the tube after washing the bike or every two weeks.
User avatar

Raphi
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby pingu-nz » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:40 pm

Raphi wrote:I am very happy that I don't need this...
I just have a plug at the end of the tube from airbox and empty the tube after washing the bike or every two weeks.


Raphi

I wish i didn't need this either ,It doesn't seem to of fixed the problem with oil. Aesthetically it looks crap.
I have gone back to the plug in the air-box hose.
Catch bottle has now sprayed oil all over the rear Tyre and brakes twice with no warning.
I don't fancy dropping bike .

cheers
Paul

pingu-nz
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:10 am
Location: Gold Coast Australia

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby BritTwit » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:59 am

pingu-nz wrote:
Raphi wrote:I am very happy that I don't need this...
I just have a plug at the end of the tube from airbox and empty the tube after washing the bike or every two weeks.


....
Catch bottle has now sprayed oil all over the rear Tyre and brakes twice with no warning.

Paul


Paul,

Have you noticed whether the oil is deposited in your bottle immediately after startup?
The one way check valves have a spotty history in use on old Nortons.
Spring and ball type check valves can over time allow oil past.
I'm wondering that even with the check valves in place, oil still migrates south into the sump.
Then on startup, the crank pushes oil from the flooded sump up to the breather and air box.

I am deliberately leaving my 961 un-started for a few days to see if the engine still pushes oil in the airbox when started.

I don't understand why some 961's have this problem and some don't.
1975 850 MKIII Commando
2013 961 Commando Cafe Racer
2006 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Ducati 999
User avatar

BritTwit
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby pingu-nz » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:15 pm

Paul,

Have you noticed whether the oil is deposited in your bottle immediately after startup?
The one way check valves have a spotty history in use on old Nortons.
Spring and ball type check valves can over time allow oil past.
I'm wondering that even with the check valves in place, oil still migrates south into the sump.
Then on startup, the crank pushes oil from the flooded sump up to the breather and air box.

I am deliberately leaving my 961 un-started for a few days to see if the engine still pushes oil in the airbox when started.

I don't understand why some 961's have this problem and some don't.[/quote]

BritTwit

On both occasions it has happened mid ride after 100-200 km with 3-4 stops during the day, at each stop I have checked the catch bottle for any oil and it has been empty.

The catch bottle fills up and sprays excess oil without any warning.

I have also tested for wet sump with bike sitting for period of time ,and the oil on the dipstick doesn't drop.

Possibly the bike wet sumps at one of the stops on the ride while oil is hot, which then pushes oil to air box ?

Maybe I need to upgrade catch bottle to a 100 ml ?

I have a 300 km ride today , the catch bottle is disconnected and the drain hose is plugged .
lets see how much oil comes out when i get home. :mrgreen:

cheers
Paul

pingu-nz
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:10 am
Location: Gold Coast Australia

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby pingu-nz » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:00 am

Well
Had a great ride today 265km
Spirited riding 5-6-7k rpm at times
Lots of twists and hills.
3 stops over the morning

Got home
Unplugged air box hose
13 drops of oil :shock:

There is no clear pattern of when its going to puke the oil .
But I wont be using the catch bottle.

cheers
Paul

pingu-nz
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:10 am
Location: Gold Coast Australia

Re: Crankcase Breather Kit

Postby BritTwit » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:54 am

pingu-nz wrote:

On both occasions it has happened mid ride after 100-200 km with 3-4 stops during the day, at each stop I have checked the catch bottle for any oil and it has been empty.

The catch bottle fills up and sprays excess oil without any warning.

I have also tested for wet sump with bike sitting for period of time ,and the oil on the dipstick doesn't drop.

Possibly the bike wet sumps at one of the stops on the ride while oil is hot, which then pushes oil to air box ?

Paul


Very strange indeed.
From what you mentioned about the problem occurring mid ride, it seems that the issue could have something to do with the savaging ability of the oil pump as you are riding.
If the pump can not scavenge the oil in the crankcase efficiently enough the level will buildup in the crankcase and possibly contact the crank and be pushed into the breather.
But if that were the situation I would suspect that it would effect the oil level in the tank as well, and you said the oil level on the dipstick has not changed.
That's a head scratcher.

I intend to take my 961 out for a 100+ mile ride on Monday after letting it sit for 3 days.
1. I'll check the the oil level first
2. Then start it and check the oil bottle
3. Go To the gas station and fuel up, and check the bottle again
4. Ride and stop periodically to check the bottle
1975 850 MKIII Commando
2013 961 Commando Cafe Racer
2006 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Ducati 999
User avatar

BritTwit
Posts: 865
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: NYC

PreviousNext

Return to Norton Commando 961 Motorcycles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: comet, italia and 1 guest