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A Christmas miracle special!!!

Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Fast Eddie » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:23 pm

EricgGallardo wrote:Congratulations, you've found something very unusual.
To reply to FastEddie comment on P. Godet, as a Frenchman I don't think Patrick is using a special time table specific to the French, he's just using a Vincent time table. For various reasons a Vincent project is always a very looonng one. For example when I did send the crankshaft of my own Norvin project to Bob Dunn (one of your fellows britons FastEddie) for a complete rebuild he did quotes a five weeks delay. That crankshaft finally came back to me after 18 months!
Patrick wouldn't be of much help for you anyway as he won't deal with you unless you buy a complete machine or send your project at his shop for a complete rebuild. The VOC would help you no end though.
With regards to the carburetors please keep this fine special with all its nice period parts free of any Mikuni or other oriental bits. New Amals are available and works great or you could use those Dellortos. I can't see the point of fitting these fines old British machines of ours with modern Japanese carbs, forks, brakes, etc. Why not buy a Jap in the first place if one wants a machine that goes, handles, sounds or brakes like a soulless modern?
My own Norvin is in a "mild" state of tune with 8:1s Omegas, MK2s, D ignition, 932s, Carrillos and 2in open pipes and as a '68 Commando and T150 engined Triton owner I can tell you that both bikes would run out of steam by the time I get to top with the Vin. In fact it feels like one and a half Commando. To cruise at 80 mph with the tacho showing less than 3500 is just great and you'll still have 2000 safe rpm to play with!
Yes, the engine will be slightly higher in a Featherbed compared to a Vincent frame, but at the moment I have a real Egli (EV3) in my garage for some work and as it sits by my Norvin it's evident that its engine is fitted two inches higher so a Norvin is better at this point and to my eyes it looks better too.
Good luck for this superb project. Hope you'll keep us updated with pics along the way.
Cheers.
Eric in France


Fair point Eric. The Bob Dunn story has me beat!

And please don't let me miss-quote myself re Monsieur Godet, apart from his time management issues, I have absolute respect for him. The Vincent's that I was lucky enough to own that had been through his hands were simply fabulous.
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Jagbruno » Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:41 pm

Eric, don't worry.

Nothing Japanese or modern will go on that bike. Or on any of my other bikes. All are pre-1972 European twins. I will keep the NorVin simple, efficient, stylish and fast.

I will more than likely use the Dellorto carbs, as I am after consistent long range performance and reliability. As I am already the proud owner of a very fast Norton slimline racer, I intent to keep this one as a fast road bike, so mild tuned engine, not too dissimilar to yours, roadholder forks, Koni or Fournales shocks, electronic ignition for reliability Amc box with Quaife 4 speed gears...I have period Borrani rims with Laverda drums, if I feel that their stopping power is not good enough, I might install an AP Racing calliper on a Norvil type disk and fork leg. For safety in modern traffic.

Nothing less, nothing more.
:twisted:
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby worntorn » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:41 pm

A friend was visiting Bob Dunn's shop a few years ago and helped Bob load a freshly rebuilt Comet engine for delivery.
Bob sheepishly commented that the engine had been left for "no rush" rebuild 29 years earlier. True story.
Apparently you don't want to tell Bob there is no rush!
He is one hell of a craftsman though and helped me with some good advice re ignitons etc when I built my 1360 Engine. He designed the advance slopes on all of the Pazon ignition for Vincents. At his suggestion, the owner of Pazon made up an ignition curve specifically for my engine. Lots of knowledge there.


Glen

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby worntorn » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:36 pm

EricgGallardo wrote:With regards to the carburetors please keep this fine special with all its nice period parts free of any Mikuni or other oriental bits. ....... I can't see the point of fitting these fines old British machines of ours with modern Japanese carbs, forks, brakes, etc. Why not buy a Jap in the first place if one wants a machine that goes, handles, sounds or brakes like a soulless modern?

Cheers.
Eric in France



You probably wouldn't want to ride something like this - although no Mikuni carbs are present there are Japanese brakes and Suspension, US and NZ electronics, Australian engine internals and a lot of Canadian Homebrew stuff. In short a mishmash-
However, the man himself, Fritz Egli Sr.seems to like it. I was surprised and honoured to get a Facebook friend request from him the other day.


http://egli-vincent.net/2014/02/22/coul ... n-vincent/

The current engine-

vincent-1360-t19100.html


I do understand where you are coming from in not wanting to use any Japanese parts on a British Special. Mine was the opposite, I started with a very light Gixxer 600 front end and started adding things. The only original Vincent part on the bike is the primary cover, and that had about two pounds of aluminium removed for lightening and to fit around the Newby belt drive.
It does sound like a Vincent though. Only more.

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Jagbruno » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:07 am

Dear Glen,

Don't take me wrong. There is nothing wrong with Japaneses parts or motorbikes, and nothing wrong with modern technology. If I had the knowledge, the finance and more importantly the ability, I could perhaps have walked a path similar to yours, starting a project from the ground up with the best parts and knowledge of today.

My path is different, I am not a mechanic, I don't have the knowledge, ability, or financial ressources to even think about a state of the art Vincent project. In fact, just a week ago I wasn't even allowing myself to pronounce this sacred word: Vincent.

But then, opportunty knocked, I made an instant decision and I am the very proud owner of 50 years old rusty bits in boxes and of a 68 year old engine. My intention is to build this project with minimal concessions to modernity, as I explained above.

That being said, I did read every word of your building saga and I am in awe with the quality of your work. Please don't be offended or surprised if I reach to you for advice once I have started my project!! 8)

Happy New Year and congratulations again!!

Bruno
Slimline racer 850 Commando
Norvin Low Boy project
´72 T120RV Bonnie CR
´69 -' 71 T100 Daytona Racer
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby worntorn » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:19 am

Jagbruno wrote:Dear Glen,

Don't take me wrong. There is nothing wrong with Japaneses parts or motorbikes, and nothing wrong with modern technology. If I had the knowledge, the finance and more importantly the ability, I could perhaps have walked a path similar to yours, starting a project from the ground up with the best parts and knowledge of today.

My path is different, I am not a mechanic, I don't have the knowledge, ability, or financial ressources to even think about a state of the art Vincent project. In fact, just a week ago I wasn't even allowing myself to pronounce this sacred word: Vincent.

But then, opportunty knocked, I made an instant decision and I am the very proud owner of 50 years old rusty bits in boxes and of a 68 year old engine. My intention is to build this project with minimal concessions to modernity, as I explained above.

That being said, I did read every word of your building saga and I am in awe with the quality of your work. Please don't be offended or surprised if I reach to you for advice once I have started my project!! 8)

Happy New Year and congratulations again!!

Bruno


Hi Bruno

No offense taken and if I had your project in front of me I would go about things just as you are planning to do. If I can be of any help, feel free to ask away. If I don't have the answer to a question, it can likely be found with our local Vincent club here.

My first bit of advice is to join the Vincent Owners Club. Cost is minimal and membership will get you 10% off on all parts at the V.O.C. Spares Company. Another plus is that you will receive the monthly club publication MPH.




Cheers
Glen

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Jagbruno » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:45 am

Thanks Glen!!!

I did join the VOC as well as the local French Vincent section as soon as I made the deal last Tuesday.
The road will be long before that thing is on the road, but I am known for my stubborness!!!

I am quite sure that I will reach out to you sooner or later...but we have the best chocolate and the best beer... :mrgreen:
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Johnnymac » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:36 pm

Congratulations! What a great find! I am very jealous!
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby WEAL Norton » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:04 am

Long ago I raced this engine when it was fitted in a kneeler sidecar. I remember the inlet tracks and the welded exhaust thread in your picture. Not very powerful for 1000cc but I was able to blow the RS BMW´s in the weeds due to my big sprocket on the back wheel. I was geared for 100mph max at 6500 - just enough for the short straights of our local Demo races whereas the BMWs with the kardan were geared for at least 130 mph. This was the only time we raced the outfit. I schooled my wife on friday afternoon in passengering a kneeler sidecar, on saturday we went to the races, on sunday we won both legs. The outfit was only on loan and was sold soon after by the owner. Aparently it was taken apart and you got the engine. There were 34mm AMAL smoothbores on it, fed by a fuelpump. Gearbox was the ordinary Commando box with 4-speed internals. Exhaust pipes were 2" without any silencer, very loud but not much punch as the engine was standard internally, no special parts that I can remember. Ignition was with a Lucas Rita, very good and reliable. Might be a good touring engine but as soon as you wring its neck you will find the weak spots of Vincent engine design. Been there, done that...

Cheers Hartmut

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Jagbruno » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:56 am

Hello Hartmut,

Great testimony!! The very nice man in Trier I bought the thing from did tell me he is the second owner since you.
He also told me that you rebuilt the engine at the time, so I would love to talk to you directly about it whenever it is convenient for you. I did try your professional phone number just now, but no answer.

I would love to get as much information as possible about 'the thing' including it's past history of course!

Is it ok if I call you tomorrow on that number, or do you prefer that I do it at another time?

Thank you very much in advance!!

Best, Bruno
Slimline racer 850 Commando
Norvin Low Boy project
´72 T120RV Bonnie CR
´69 -' 71 T100 Daytona Racer
´71 BMW 75/5 CR


('63 E-type Jag...)
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby WEAL Norton » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:19 am

Bruno
I never owned that bike, I just had it on loan for that race. The owner bought that bike somewhere in GB around 1994 and wanted to race with me but after one training session he was too scared to hop into the sidecar again. I was working on brit bikes for the outfits owner and had the engine apart as it leaked like a sieve, this must have been more than 20 years ago as I started my own bike shop in 1996. I cannot remember exactly what pistons or cams where in it. There have been so many Vincents on my workbenches that it is difficult to remember each one. The only ones that I could probably tell you all details are my own HRD and the streamliner motors. You can always call me or send a mail - no problem.

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby WEAL Norton » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:28 am

Forgot to add that the outfit was sold by the owner at least 10 or 15 years ago. I heard that someone wanted the converted featherbed frame with its 10" Cooper wheels for another project. I don´t know who bought the outfit and dismantled it. It handled very good and would have been suitable for a real strong engine - maybe that was the reason to pull the chopped Vincent out of it? I might have some pictures somewhere of the outfit - if I can dig them out ....

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby jaguar » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:34 pm

I saw this posted on a FB group.
Guy posted it passed if I remember right!

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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Jagbruno » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:00 pm

Correct.

I jumped at it. Fast. 8)
Slimline racer 850 Commando
Norvin Low Boy project
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´69 -' 71 T100 Daytona Racer
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Re: A Christmas miracle special!!!

Postby Jagbruno » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:31 am

And so it begins.
After 8 months of head-scratching and money searching, we have officially started the project 2 weeks ago. The first news from the frontline are quite good: the frame is very sound with an optimal geometry for the project, the gearbox is in as new condition and so is the Mick Hemmings Norton clutch.

On the engine side, the bottom end appears excellent, both front heads are in excellent condition and have obviously been gas-flowed. It is fitted with hot cams and the timing side is in great shape.

It will take time, sweat and (lot's of) money, but the result should be worth the while!
I am happy. For now.

:mrgreen:


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Slimline racer 850 Commando
Norvin Low Boy project
´72 T120RV Bonnie CR
´69 -' 71 T100 Daytona Racer
´71 BMW 75/5 CR


('63 E-type Jag...)
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