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Chinese Norton 650s?

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Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby grandpaul » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:31 pm

Norton motorcycles announce ‘Design & Licence’ agreement with Zhongshen manufacturing of Chongqing, China.
Norton and Zhongshen have entered into a 20 year Design and Licence agreement over an all new 650cc twin engine. The 650cc twin engine jointly engineered and developed by Norton and Ricardo has been specifically designed to the requirements of Zhongshen and will be Euro 4 compliant. This enables Zhongshen to meet current and future emissions regulations, clearly an important step for Zhongshen and enables them to continue their phenomenal growth in the global motorcycle market.
The engine and its' IP developed by Norton is specific and exclusive to Zhongshen and it is expected the engine will be produced under the ‘Zhongshen’ or ‘Cyclone’ brands.
The value of the deal is to remain private, but the initial consideration paid to Norton is in the millions of dollars with an ongoing royalty on each engine produced. The agreement is for a 20 year term, last year Zhongshen produced around 4 million engines.
Norton CEO, Stuart Garner commented; “It’s a great endorsement of our new 650cc engine platform and shows the high level of engineering expertise we have here at Norton. Working with Zhongshen going forwards will enable them to deliver high quality low emission engines compliant to current global standards. The commercialisation of our IP is a key area for Norton and we will be investing the substantial revenue received back into our skills, training and engineering capability, thus ensuring long term sustainability to our British made Norton motorcycles here in the UK”
Please note; Norton will continue to hand make ALL of its' own Norton engines here in the UK at its' Donington Hall factory.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby BritTwit » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Chinese made Nortons?
In a word, disappointing. :(
I would have preferred a non-Communist Asian nation like Thailand.
I suppose it's a sign of the times though.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:31 pm

BritTwit wrote:Chinese made Nortons?


It doesn't say that.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby Fast Eddie » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:00 pm

Can't see the problem. He states that all Norton engines will continue to be made in the U.K. Norton are simply selling rights to the Chinese, for the new engine, to use in their own branded bikes. It is a genuinely good way for Norton to make a healthy margin, which, hopefully, will be reinvested for the betterment of Norton and Nortons.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby BritTwit » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:15 pm

Fast Eddie wrote:Can't see the problem. He states that all Norton engines will continue to be made in the U.K.


I'm just suspicious that sourcing cheaper motors manufactured in China is a very attractive alternative to more expensive UK.
But, I suppose you're right.
Anyway, the engine components will probably be sourced from the same suppliers - worldwide.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby Fast Eddie » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:30 pm

Well, despite my previous 'defence' of the engine situation, I would imagine that the issue of sourcing more and more components, and more major components, from cheap Asian suppliers, for use in the 'British' bikes will increase.

And that would piss me off. I find it really irritating when companies 'fly the flag' and make a song and dance about being British, when in reality, all is not as it seems.

I think Triumph are wrong in this regard. And I think if Garner goes too far down the same road it will back fire on him badly.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby ashman » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:35 pm

Fast Eddie wrote:Well, despite my previous 'defence' of the engine situation, I would imagine that the issue of sourcing more and more components, and more major components, from cheap Asian suppliers, for use in the 'British' bikes will increase.

And that would piss me off. I find it really irritating when companies 'fly the flag' and make a song and dance about being British, when in reality, all is not as it seems.

I think Triumph are wrong in this regard. And I think if Garner goes too far down the same road it will back fire on him badly.


If Triumph are wrong then how come they are getting stronger every year, it has worked for them and can't see why Norton can't do the same, remember its all about cost, every bike manufactures source their parts world wide, remember the old days of Britist motorcycles,,they all went to the wall because of cost blow out.
I would love to own a new Norton but the cost to buy one is beyond my bank account, thats is why I brought a new Triumph Thruxton over 4 years ago, the cost of a new Triumph out weights the cost of a new Norton by nearly half and the Triumph is so relieable, no problems at all in 50k on the clock.

Its all about making money and surviving in a world of economices gloome.

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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby grandpaul » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:31 am

I just think if they already have the engine, and it look like a good 'un, why not pop it in a generic frame with generic suspension have soome Norton tanks made up, ang get it on the market quickly as an "Atlas"?
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby BritTwit » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:13 am

Has anyone actually seen one of these mythical 650s?
I've read a bit about them, but have yet to actually see one in the flesh.
I wonder if they are so good, might Norton build a homologation dirt tracker to race in AMA competition?
Would be nice to see the Norton name back on the dirt tracks in the US.
DOHC, 4 Valve, liquid cooled - same as the Kawasaki 650's that compete.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby Fast Eddie » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:49 am

ashman wrote:
Fast Eddie wrote:Well, despite my previous 'defence' of the engine situation, I would imagine that the issue of sourcing more and more components, and more major components, from cheap Asian suppliers, for use in the 'British' bikes will increase.

And that would piss me off. I find it really irritating when companies 'fly the flag' and make a song and dance about being British, when in reality, all is not as it seems.

I think Triumph are wrong in this regard. And I think if Garner goes too far down the same road it will back fire on him badly.


If Triumph are wrong then how come they are getting stronger every year, it has worked for them and can't see why Norton can't do the same, remember its all about cost, every bike manufactures source their parts world wide, remember the old days of Britist motorcycles,,they all went to the wall because of cost blow out.
I would love to own a new Norton but the cost to buy one is beyond my bank account, thats is why I brought a new Triumph Thruxton over 4 years ago, the cost of a new Triumph out weights the cost of a new Norton by nearly half and the Triumph is so relieable, no problems at all in 50k on the clock.

Its all about making money and surviving in a world of economices gloome.

Ashley


You are right in terms of money!

But that doesn't make everything right. The way Triumph cover their bikes and displays in Rule Britannia regalia, and then claim that it doesn't matter where they are made, is surely hypocritical?

It's plain old market exploitation.

However, with Triumph, the truth is that most buyers actually are not that bothered, as proven by their fantastic sales, so Triumph could (and IMHO should) drop the Rule Britannia theatre.

Norton is different though, Norton buyers make a conscious decision to buy 'premium' (i.e. They willingly pay more than they would have to if they bought, from elsewhere, something that did the same job) and part of this decision is the 'hand built in England' appeal.

As an example, look at premium watches: People are happy to pay £30 for a Chinese fake Swiss watch. People are also happy to pay £3000 for a genuine Swiss made Swiss watch...

I doubt many people would be happy to pay £3000 for a Chinese Swiss watch !

If Norton damages their premium appeal they will be in danger of undermining their entire reason for existence (in their current form) IMHO.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby ashman » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:37 pm

My Triumph was assembled in Thiland, the factory there is the same design and has the same floor plan as the factory in England, Triumph source there parts world wide and is shipped to these two factories for assembling, so really they aren't made there they are assembled there, its sheaper for Triumph to export their bikes from Thilandto the US, Asia, Aust.markets than exporting them from England, factory in Enland for the European market and Thiland factory for the rest of the world and really when you think about it its good business to keep prices down and to make motorcycles for everyone not just a few who have to much money.

Look at Harlies and Harley owners they make a big song and dance about being made in the great US of A but really most of their parts are also sourced world wide thats why you need two tool kits to work on them, imperal and metric unless they have now gone full metric as its been some time now I owned a Harley, but to buy a new Harley these days you need a good bank balance as the prices are getting out of hand, its all about profites keeping the shareholders happy and not having GOVTs to bale them out when times go bad.

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Last edited by ashman on Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby acotrel » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:08 am

Is Norton's 'premium appeal' based on fact or fiction ? For years the British motorcycle industry existed on the smell of an oily rag. The designs did not change much because of the investment needed to tool up to do it. The Japanese brought out new designs every five minutes and each one better than the previous. The only thing which will stop the Chinese is their metallurgy (attention to detail ) , and the British are not so flash in that department anyway.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby texasSlick » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:28 pm

acotrel wrote:Is Norton's 'premium appeal' based on fact or fiction ? For years the British motorcycle industry existed on the smell of an oily rag. The designs did not change much because of the investment needed to tool up to do it. The Japanese brought out new designs every five minutes and each one better than the previous. The only thing which will stop the Chinese is their metallurgy (attention to detail ) , and the British are not so flash in that department anyway.


Agree! Unless the Chinese have made advances In metallurgy of which I am unaware, they are still at the dawn of the iron age.

BTW ..... Garner received British government (taxpayer) financial assistance...... he owes the people to keep jobs at home.

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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby BritTwit » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:33 pm

acotrel wrote:Is Norton's 'premium appeal' based on fact or fiction ?


If I were in the market for a new Norton 650 it would bother me if Norton stuffed Zhongshen or Cyclone built motors from China into the frame, then put Norton badges on the bike, and Norton embossed engine covers on the motor, and then tried to charge me the Norton premium price.

If I’m buying a Norton and paying top dollar, the machine should be hand built in the UK.
That, and low production exclusivity are what make up Norton ‘premium appeal’ for me.
Even if many components in said bike are sourced from around the world.
Worldwide sourcing is a fact of modern like.
You can lament that fact or just accept it, but it’s not going away anytime soon, if ever.

As long as Chinese built motors are placed in Chinese built bikes, and UK assembled motors are placed in UK built Nortons, I’m happy, and the universe makes sense.
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Re: Chinese Norton 650s?

Postby Peter R » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:22 am

We have to bear in mind that the "Britishness" of these bikes will matter to most of the members on forums like this, however the vast majority of the public in general will not care a sh*t if his bike is made in Britain or China or anywhere else.

My daughter drives a Mini, another so called British icon, the car was conceived by BMW, and built in the Netherlands, with components from all over the planet. Do you think she cares? I think not.
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