Camshaft Replacement

by **swooshdave** » Mon May 11, 2009 11:54 am

JimC wrote:The problem with empirical evidence is one never knows how close you are to failure. Problem is failure is usually not a gradual thing. Failure occurs once protection falls below minimum thresholds. Many bikers swear by their favorite oil. "I use ACME 5-80w and never lost an engine". I believe the Norton cam lubrication is barely adequate. That being said, I opt for a high zinc content oil. I personally now have a case of Torco T-4M 20-50w. Another aspect I think our Norton's need is an oil cooler. I spoke at length with an engineer from Spectro. He claimed when oil temp in the tank reaches the 240°F you are at risk. Keep in mind the oil reaches higher temperature in other parts of the engine, especially the head. With a meat thermometer in the oil tank I found the temp near 240°F. I now run a Lockhart cooler. Temps never get beyond 220°F. According to the Spectro engineer it's also important to have oil temp reach a minimum, hence the need for a bypass thermostat.

Does the Lockhart have a bypass?

by **JimC** » Mon May 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Yes. I don't know if they sell them any more. I bought the cooler on ebay and the thermostat from Lockhart-Phillips about six years ago. I just checked their website and there is no listing of oil coolers or thermostats. I looked on http://www.mikesxs.net/products-23.html#products that lists a niffty looking cooler. Doesn't appear to have a thermostat. Jagg also makes a motorcycle oil cooler, but its about three times the price of the Yamaha cooler. Jagg is after the H-D (read high dollar) market , hence the sky-hi price.

by **GRM 450** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:47 am

For those in Oz Castrol Edge 20W50 has a high zinc content, (1000 parts per milion acording to the Castrol tech) previously called Castrol R.
(I knew this would turn into an oil debate)
I asked a respected engine machinist, who mostly works on older engines his opinion, and he seems to think it's mostly the metal and not the oil.
Then again, in the scheme of things, good oil is cheap.

by **JimC** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:00 am

GRM 450 wrote:For those in Oz Castrol Edge 20W50 has a high zinc content, (1000 parts per milion acording to the Castrol tech) previously called Castrol R.
(I knew this would turn into an oil debate)
I asked a respected engine machinist, who mostly works on older engines his opinion, and he seems to think it's mostly the metal and not the oil.
Then again, in the scheme of things, good oil is cheap.

I agree with the machinist. If you can raise the level of protection with the oil then you've compensated for the lacking metal quality.

by **littlefield** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:18 am

If the MSDS data on the Redline oil is accurate its' got 6000-12000 ppm ZDDP.

by **Cookie** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:02 am

MHO is that Norton must have gotten pretty sad in quality control near the end. My early Norton cams wore quite well, although I did run a lot more oil than stock and it was much cooler.
I can only hope for the cam in my 72 engine and run Redline.

by **Scooter62** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:40 pm

One of the issues of the INOA newsletter (I think it was #152) had an article about the hardness of various cams. Also Geoff Collins had an article in the issue #154 Tech section about nitriding various items including cams.
Apparently there is quite a variation in the hardness of different cams that are available for the Commando. I tried the stellite welded cam w/ a regrind but decided not to use it since it looked a bit cobby and the last thing I want to do is take the beast apart because of a failed cam. Unfortunately it's hard to visually determine the hardness of a cam lobe and I haven't been able to locate anyone with the equipment.
Not that it is a sure thing but the air cooled Porsche guys like the high zinc oil for their engines. As someone said the oil may need to make up for the lack of hardness and consider the high zinc oil cheap insurance.

Scooter

by **Cookie** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:01 pm

You can notice a cam wearing by the need for frequent adjustment, I'll keep an eye on this one. Running Redline will only get me so far if it is soft. If I continue to use it the same way as I did last year even a soft cam should make several years. My Goldwings get the wear of a distance ride and they don't care.

by **79x100** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:12 pm

Cookie wrote:You can notice a cam wearing by the need for frequent adjustment, I'll keep an eye on this one.

The cams don't wear on the base circle so there won't be any evidence in terms of tappet adjustment. Reduced lift is really only measurable rather than visible, at least to start with.

The first clue is really a bit too much 'christmas tree' growth on the magnetic drain plug, with tell-tale shiny fragments as the followers begin to follow suit.

If you're not an earnest thrasher then the gradual tailing off of performance is not immediately noticeable but fuel consumption will improve

by **Cookie** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:42 pm

Humm, that's interesting. I've not had this on a Norton so that old tip off won't work huh? Perhaps I'll try measureing the lift each time I check the valves.
I've only had a soft cam on a 289 Ford once and it wore everywhere.

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