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Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Norton Models (not Commando or P11)

Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby Bernhard » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:19 am

Recently on this website someone stated on another thread the c.i. barrels on an Atlas have on spun cast liners inside them-you know how it is –it only takes someone on social media or the internet to make a statement which then becomes a “Fact”
I quote,

Postby texasSlick » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:01 pm
I happen to have my Atlas cylinders sitting on my credenza. As I am the original owner, I can attest to the fact these are as originally fitted.
Examination with a 5X loupe reveals:
1) There is a uniform sand casting texture where the outer diameters of the cylinders join the base between the tappet bores (the non machined area inside the gasket flange). There is a smaller non machined area at the rear, dead center between the cylinders, that has the same texture characteristics.
2) There is also a generous radius where the outer diameter of the cylinder joins the non machined base area.
3) There is no visible joint in the machined surface where the lower cylinder spigots merge into the tappet bores.
These factors rule out a pressed in liner. Let's put this issue aside and return to helping the OP with his original question. Slick

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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby APRRSV » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:16 am

What are you saying Bernhard? They do or do not have liners from the factory?

Ed

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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby dynodave » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:26 am

APRRSV wrote:What are you saying Bernhard? They do or do not have liners from the factory?

Ed


1. I think Bernard is saying forums are a great source for misinformation and whether many posters are functionally illiterate and not clear in their writings or just give bad data because they heard it else where (parroting).
I agree. See my by-line below

2. He quotes Slick: where Slick goes through great pains to prove his point, which is correct. They (atlas24237) did not come with CI liners. To expand on that...if you look...750 commando used the same # raw casting. 24237

While commando maybe king on Access Norton...There is such a distinction to separate early NHT from the last 7 years (commando) from the NHT roots 1949-1967. Which is a sample of where this forum is (IMO) a poor format. You can't speak of early bikes on the commando section and you are not supposed to speak of commando on the norton "other" section.
Why is P-11 so special ??????????????????

For mainly these reasons, I have little to say.
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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby Rohan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:53 am

Bernhard wrote:Recently on this website someone stated on another thread the c.i. barrels on an Atlas have on spun cast liners inside them


There is somewhat of a MAJOR FLAW/TYPO in Bernhards statement here, which doesn't help !!
Is he trying to say there is NO sleeve ?? - not "on" (sic )

As before, I'd comment that I have more than a few examples of Nortons iron cylinders,
and NONE of them have sleeves from the factory. Dommie 500, Atlas 750, Commando 850
Including a set of usable but worn Atlas cylinders, still at std size, but needing a rebore to +0.020
No sleeves in that one either, Bernhard.

The spun cast sleeves were offered ONLY as a repair item.
Since the WW2 era even, for the military models.
Bernhard is offering silly comments about them being sleeved from new from the factory.
Since Dave couldn't quite get around to saying this clearly.
Lets not beat around the bush....

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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby worntorn » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:28 pm

Aren't you all in violent agreement that Norton Dommie cylinders were cast iron thru and thru?

Glen

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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby Rohan » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:02 pm

Bernhard doesn't seem to be.... ?
And Dave also seemed to beat around the bush a bit ?

And if the words, and thread title, are misleading/unclear as to meaning,
I thought I'd stamp on any suggestion that Norton cylinders aren't one piece iron castings through and through,
for the benefit of future readers.

I had wondered if this is an example of "alternative facts", as seem to be becoming popular !!

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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby dynodave » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:42 am

beat around the bush?

"Slick goes through great pains to prove his point, which is correct. They (atlas24237) did not come with CI liners.
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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby Rohan » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:04 am

Many folk would be wondering at this point what a CI liner was ?
And, how that relates to the spun cast liners that ARE available

Or, by you stating did not come with CI liners.,
do you really mean they came with steel sleeves ??
Nortons used steel sleeves in their racing engines - Manxs and Inters - for ooh, about 30 years.

Beating about the bush here, definitely.....

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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby dynodave » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:26 pm

Yes we're taking about norton twins....initially atlas but it really includes 750 commando.
NOT
"Nortons used steel sleeves in their racing engines - Manxs and Inters - for ooh, about 30 years."

back to my normal mode: :mrgreen:
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Re: Atlas 650, 600,500 cast iron barrels –the truth!

Postby Rohan » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:35 pm

Surely even you can see that saying that
Nortons didn't have cast iron sleeves
is NOT the same as saying that Norton twin engines didn't use sleeves.

That ambiguity is beating about the bush for sure.....

We still haven't heard from Bernhard about his take on this either...

And, in case anyone has lost the historical perspective on this,
the dommie and Atlas and 650 engines were designed at Bracebridge street,
in the era when Nortons WERE fitting steel sleeves to some of their engines...

Or as Dave might put it
in the era when Nortons WERE fitting steel sleeves to some of their engines.

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