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All Right , I'll play your silly game .

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All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Matt Spencer » Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:38 pm

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With all the wonderous contrivances available now , could someone get a 100 Hp 750 to stay together AND retain the Tourque Characteristics that made these so competitive . :?:

Wots the TOURQUE CURVE available compared to curret XR 750s :?: :?:

Would need a bit of aluminum Everywhere , Even Magnesium , if permissable . looks like the oppositions hottin up .

Of course , thered be the small matter of a dollar or two , to cover the costs . Riders are a dime a dozen , but ones with balls & brains in equal prportions scarcer .

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OOPS ; http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2016/08/ ... pectators/

Looks like old Massey furgeson's come up with something new , too . Looks a bit better than the street bike , at least .

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aparently the Japs are nipping at their heels , too . a good design conundrum , flat trackers . Optimisation aint what it neccesarilly is elsewhere .

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Appears to be some tarted up saurkraut job . Ineligable in US with that many cylinders . Restrictions like that mean most ' thewper bikes are U J M 4s . ( Barff Icon )
NOW a evenfire V 12 would have to be at least Interesting . :P Looks a bit odd , actually http://www.bikeexif.com/triumph-flat-tracker

Normally bits sticking out get knocked off , in the rough'n tumble . :?

o.k. Would a aluminum Custom Norton Commando Do It , Pwr / Wt . THEN ! ?
The Japanese response to ' styling ' , was to add more .
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby bill » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:54 am

man i wish people would quit calling these things a Massey Ferguson. i have a MF255 and it is smoother, quieter and has more uses :lol:

Matt Spencer wrote:
Looks like old Massey furgeson's come up with something new , too . Looks a bit better than the street bike , at least .

Image
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Danno » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:31 am

The Harley XGR was campaigned last year on a limited basis. This year, like Indian, they will field a 3-rider team. The Indian FTR was debuted at the last race of 2016 by 39-year-old former #1 plate holder Joe Kopp. He got a hole shot and led the first laps before being overtaken by younger, stronger riders. The BMW 800 flat tracker is a Ron Wood creation that has been raced with some success by #23 Jeffrey Carver.

As for the Japanese. the Kawasaki twin has dominated GNC Miles and had some success on Half-Miles for several years, winning the #1 plate in the capable hands of Scotty Parker's former protege Bryan Smith. Yamaha's FZ-07 is in the mix as well as entries from Euros Ducati, Triumph and KTM. There's even a couple of Honda RS 750s out there. One guy that races an RS told me there is no factory support or parts available and when they need something, they have it custom-made. For those who stay home thinking GNC flat track is a one-brand (H-D) show, it has not been that way for several years, although without H-ds participation and support, flat track would be dead and buried.

If you have never been to a Grand National Flat Track Race, especially a Mile, try to make one this year. You won't be disappointed. Access to the riders and machinery is unprecedented compared to any other form of motor racing.
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby grandpaul » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:04 am

Danno wrote:If you have never been to a Grand National Flat Track Race, especially a Mile, try to make one this year. You won't be disappointed. Access to the riders and machinery is unprecedented compared to any other form of motor racing.

Danno, have you ever been to any AHRMA races?
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby pantah_good » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:21 am

A GNC Mile is as good as it gets!
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Matt Spencer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:28 am

Image

Image

BSA Rocket III - This Trackmaster BSA was tuned by Tom Cates and ridden by National #24, Jim Rice. Rice won the
Sedalia 25 Mile National on this BSA and is also the same bike he rode in the film "On Any Sunday".

Image
The Japanese response to ' styling ' , was to add more .
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Matt Spencer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:43 am

ETC

Image

etc etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGWfIE2M9Zg

phpBB [video]
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Matt Spencer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:00 am

Or REAL Ones . :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoyxQb2TL54
phpBB [video]


etc
phpBB [video]
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Matt Spencer » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:30 am

And if you want to get really modern , On Board with the 1925 Excelsior Super X . with the Petrol Engine , so you dont even need a Horse .

phpBB [video]


These Veteran devices are pretty far out , actually .

Theyd be impractical on the road nowadays tho . you couldnt carry enough Bricks to throw at all the cars that pulled out in front of you . :) :P
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Rohan » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:58 pm

In case you missed it Matt, that "jap" bike nipping at their heels is a Triumph !!
Not sure there is much japanese content there ?
Made in Thailand maybe though...

Matt Spencer wrote:
aparently the Japs are nipping at their heels , too . a good design conundrum , flat trackers . Optimisation aint what it neccesarilly is elsewhere .

Image


Interesting subject/rant...

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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Danno » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:42 pm

grandpaul wrote:
Danno wrote:If you have never been to a Grand National Flat Track Race, especially a Mile, try to make one this year. You won't be disappointed. Access to the riders and machinery is unprecedented compared to any other form of motor racing.

Danno, have you ever been to any AHRMA races?


Barber 2016. My buddy who races E-bikes was 2008 & 2010 Heavyweight Superbike Champ in AMHRA. I'd like to make Mid-Ohio 2017.
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Danno » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:49 pm

Matt Spencer wrote:Image

Image

BSA Rocket III - This Trackmaster BSA was tuned by Tom Cates and ridden by National #24, Jim Rice. Rice won the
Sedalia 25 Mile National on this BSA and is also the same bike he rode in the film "On Any Sunday".

Image


And for those who have never been to Carl Donelson's Museum, there's also a Romero Triumph and an Aldana Norton among the relics and memorabilia.
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby acotrel » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:24 pm

Do you really need a lot of torque in a dirt bike ? My brother runs two Kawasaki triple two strokes in historic speedway, both on methanol. The tyres are critical - too much grip is a real problem. I would have thought a top end motor would be better than a very torquey one ? Is it permitted to use JAWA speedway bikes on the mile in America ?
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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Rohan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:10 am

Hasn't your slogan always been "torque wins races".
Are you renouncing that ?

Maybe we need a careful definition of torque here too.
As has oft been pointed out here, engines make torque ALL THROUGH THE REV RANGE.
Don't just concentrate on the max torque... ?

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Re: All Right , I'll play your silly game .

Postby Danno » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:53 am

acotrel wrote:Do you really need a lot of torque in a dirt bike ? My brother runs two Kawasaki triple two strokes in historic speedway, both on methanol. The tyres are critical - too much grip is a real problem. I would have thought a top end motor would be better than a very torquey one ? Is it permitted to use JAWA speedway bikes on the mile in America ?


Jawa Speedway bikes run on alcohol for one thing, so, no. It would be fun to see how their lap times compared to a good single-cylinder flat tracker, but singles are now the support class. With no rear suspension and very little on the front, it's doubtful they could keep up.

Years ago it was discovered that increasing horsepower in a flat-track engine did not go hand in hand with a reduction of lap times. It was postulated that any more than around 100-105 bhp was useless because it could not be put down on the track and only brought on excess wheelspin. Then, someone out of the inner circle took a look at a dyno graph of an XR 750 and discovered something curious: We all know the hp and torque graphs intersect at 5250? rpm, but most graphs show hp continuing to rise while torque maxes out and starts falling off. The XR 750 chart showed the lines intersecting and crossing the opposite way; as the hp fell off, torque continued to rise. They really don't start to honk until the large valve overlap is overcome by rpm. This is why the air-cooled 750s could best larger-displacement, more modern machines and why people thought more power was useless. This kept the XR 750 competitive for many years beyond it's development cycle.

Of course, everyone knows this now and are using the XR tuning parameters (see the thread here on XR ports) to make the modern ohc liquid-cooled twins suitable for flat-track competition. And this is why H-D has been forced to develop their liquid-cooled, ohc Street 750 engine for track use,
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