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72 AJS Norton Stormer

Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby Rohan » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:38 pm

frankdamp wrote: I'm pretty sure that was way after the last of the AMC Matchlesses and probably the only ever two stroke to carry the badge.



The Matchless Pinto was a 2 stroke.
While they may not have sold many, it was a production Matchless, and the brochures show them for a few years...

Hopethishelps.

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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:13 am

Rohan:

That's a completely new name for me. When was the Matchless Pinto on the market? I don't remember any Matchless bikes being on the market after about 1964.
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby L.A.B. » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:23 am

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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby Rohan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Good link LAB. They were 1960 and 61 and maybe 62, export only to the USA.

There was also the Matchless Papoose, a little 2 stroke powered scooter thing, same era.
Same engine, laid flat ? Rebadged James too.

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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby Time Warp » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:28 am

frankdamp wrote:Rohan:

That's a completely new name for me. When was the Matchless Pinto on the market? I don't remember any Matchless bikes being on the market after about 1964.


It was a James in reality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1960-Mat ... 232a067f5b
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:24 am

The key in that article was that the Pinto was only sold in the USA. I movd over here in 1968, so it was probably off the market by then. I'd decided not to pursue motorcycling once we got to the land of short-sighted little old ladies in gargantuan cars.
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby Rohan » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:05 pm

It was well off the market by then - they were sold in 1960 to 1962 only ?

The AMC made engines, designed by Piatti was it ? - were considered a dud.
Not as good as the Villiers apparently.
And with assembly problems, apparently Villiers ended up building them anyway !

P.S. Good link timewarp. They must be pretty thin on the ground.
Not seen one in the metal, but that one looks very neat indeed.

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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:06 am

I almost bought a Piatti Scooter in 1958. Thank goodness I wised up at the last minute and got a Vespa. Mom wouldn't let me have a "MOTORCYCLE". I sneaked an Ariel Leader through by saying it was really a scooter, then got a "real" bike, a BSA A7. She was horrified when I started working for Norton and riding every day.
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby wakeup » Fri May 03, 2013 5:11 am

This bike is about 1970 or 71. Stormers certainly were competitive, at one point (about midway) in I think the 1970 MotoCross World Championship they (Malcolm Davis and Andy Roberton) were first and second in the World Champs. Then they got injured or something. The guy that bought the stock and AJS name was Fluff Brown, who was a works team mechanic, and was previously a works rider for Cotton. I bought the cycle parts of one to put a 350 Triumph twin motor in (!!) to make a street bike, with a 19" front wheel all the angles worked out just right. Sadly I had to part with it when we left the midlands, but I still have the Norton spindle, modified to fit a Norton front wheel into the AJS forks.
There was a plan to build a street version of the moto cross bikes, it was about the time that Yamaha introduced its DT5 (????) street scrambler. The plan was to have a motocross bike with lights on basically, sadly it came to nothing when it was costed, the DT5 was sold in the USA for (say)$500, relatively speaking the AJS was going to cost something like $800. I rather fancied the 250 pure street bike (think Bultaco Metralla only faster and better handling), which was part of the same cancelled program.
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Mon May 20, 2013 3:30 pm

I used one of the ISDT bikes as a run-about around the factory and local streets. It had lights and a spark arrestor/silencer. That was the one that had me climbing the frong grille of a double decker bus.

Someone at the factory had n=been eperimenting with different ignition timing and had left it more advanced than usual. As I rolled to a stop at a red light, it died, but a quick clutch dip got it running again before I stopped. When the light changed, I gunned it and took off - backwards! With the scrambles knobby tires, it climbed radiators very well! I realised afterwards that it sounded odd when it re-started, but I never thought it was runninig backwards
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby dave M » Mon May 20, 2013 9:51 pm

My chum raced a 410 AJS Stormer in Hong Kong in the early 70s, it had almost no flywheel effect and his ran backwards a couple of times when it was idling particularly slowly and he reved it up to catch it from stalling, it didn't seem to have the momentum to get it over TDC at that speed. He thought one of the other competitors was playing a trick on him by pulling him backwards, but there was no one to be seen.

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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Wed May 22, 2013 8:35 pm

I remember Fluff Brown very well, as I spent a lot of time with him and Malcolm Davis doing test work on the Stormer. I believe Fluff passed away a couple of years ago and his son is now running the business.

The Stormer's frame was definitely an N-V design and owed nothing to James, Francis-Barnett or anyone else. It was derived from the Commando, and featured the same large-diameter top tube. The major difference was that it was attached to the headstock near the bottom rather than the top, as the Commando was configured.

In competition we suffered three top-tube fatigue failures, which look exactly the same, but upside down, as those referred to as "widow-maker" failures on the Commando. I did a quickie analysis of the structure and showed that the gusset between the top of the headstock and the top tube made a stress concentrator of about 6-times magnitude, which was causing "oil-can" deformation of the top tube and failure in the top half. The same problem affected the Commando, with fatigue cracking in the lower half of the tube, just aft of the gusset.

Late production models had a top tube that was made up of two semi-circular tubes with a triangular filler between them. The two semi-circular pieces were welded close to the top and bottom of the headstock, and came together at the back of the seat pan as a circular tube. The triangular piece was welded in to make a complete tapered ovoid structural item. i wanted to do a logarithmic curved piece, to match the stress concentrations, but was shot down on costs.

I wish the Commando folks had taken that design instead of the extra tube installation. At least it would have looked more professional!
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:33 pm

Here's a warning for anyone "tidying up" wiring on a roadable Stormer. Someone posted on the Commando section the other day about hiding the wiring inside the frame tubes. Whatever else, DON'T do this on a Stormer. The top tube is highly stressed and susceptible to fatigue failures. We had several frames fail during competition while I was involved at N-V. Fortunately, the fuel tank was strong enough to hold things together and there were no injuries due to the frames failing.

Holes drilled through parts under high stress levels in action are major stress raisers, particularly if they aren't on the horizontal center-line of the tube. Burrs round the holes are even worse.
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby wakeup » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:30 pm

In 69/70 AJS had works riders Malcolm Davis, Andy Roberton and Bengt-Arne Bong. I'm not sure how long the latter was on the payroll, but I remember Fluff telling me that he was the fastest, hardist, most destructive rider he had ever met. He told a story about the Stormer rear wheel, which was generally thought to be pretty robust. B-AB destroyed a rear wheel in about an hour. Thinking it was a fluke, the team put in a new wheel, which B-AB destroyed even quicker.
I always thought that the 250 was a "sweet" motor, whereas the 370 and later 410 were fast but rough, not pleasant to ride.
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Re: 72 AJS Norton Stormer

Postby frankdamp » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:25 am

I don't remember Andy Roberton being on the M-X team at the time I left (May 1968), but I remember Malcolm Davis and Fluff Brown quite well. I agree that the 250 was a good-runner and relatively low vibration. The "360" was more of a rattler, and I can imagine the 410 being a real beast.

The last time I saw those guys was when the team came to a motocross meet in Washington State as part of a US tour - must've been spring of 1969, I think.
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