Welcome to the Access Norton Forum. Login as a VIP member to remove the advertising banners.


advice needed

advice needed

Postby chrisf1 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:07 pm

Hi again everyone I will say what I would like to do on my rebuild and am looking for criticisms, advice, and why, I am building another pre unit bottom end to swap out with the existing one in my bike which is dynamo cases with the dynamo hole blanked off and running an alternator it is also running the old school distributor which I dislike so I first wish to get the bike running again with this engine which before I pulled the primary side and gearbox off was running quite well, first problem, I would like to run without a battery (difficulty mounting with intended alloy oil tank ?), I intend to go with electronic ignition a new alternator (which one ??) as the one on it is suspect the red ignition light stays on when the engine is running ??? Next problem I am running an AMC Norton gearbox/clutch and wish to go for a dry primary belt drive should I go for a Triumph box for ease of final assembly or will the existing box not be a problem it does drip oil by the way what oil should it run on, well thats the start but it will be time lengthened by funds so suggestions of the best places for buying all of this would be a great help, I am in to deep to stop but unfortunately the pocket will restrict me so if anyone has any of the stuff I am looking for in good nick please contact me I already have 6T alternator crankcases and a big bearing crank and con rods (unit), rev counter timing chest, I am also considering a Morgo rotary oil pump ???? I will need camshafts E3134, timing gears. and possibly another (650 or 750) 9 stud top end, all advice, criticisms, and offers greatly appreciated, many thanks Chris

chrisf1
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 am

Re: advice needed

Postby grandpaul » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:58 pm

I hope you have saved up a good healthy pile of patience!

(and money)
GrandPaul
author "Old Bikes"
too many bikes to list, including:
952 Prototype, MkIII Interstate, Combat Dunstall, Triton
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
grandpaul
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 9585
View Photo Album - Images: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:11 pm
Location: Laredo (south) Texas

Re: advice needed

Postby Fast Eddie » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:50 am

chrisf1 wrote:Hi again everyone I will say what I would like to do on my rebuild and am looking for criticisms, advice, and why, I am building another pre unit bottom end to swap out with the existing one in my bike which is dynamo cases with the dynamo hole blanked off and running an alternator it is also running the old school distributor which I dislike so I first wish to get the bike running again with this engine which before I pulled the primary side and gearbox off was running quite well, first problem, I would like to run without a battery (difficulty mounting with intended alloy oil tank ?), I intend to go with electronic ignition a new alternator (which one ??) as the one on it is suspect the red ignition light stays on when the engine is running ??? Next problem I am running an AMC Norton gearbox/clutch and wish to go for a dry primary belt drive should I go for a Triumph box for ease of final assembly or will the existing box not be a problem it does drip oil by the way what oil should it run on, well thats the start but it will be time lengthened by funds so suggestions of the best places for buying all of this would be a great help, I am in to deep to stop but unfortunately the pocket will restrict me so if anyone has any of the stuff I am looking for in good nick please contact me I already have 6T alternator crankcases and a big bearing crank and con rods (unit), rev counter timing chest, I am also considering a Morgo rotary oil pump ???? I will need camshafts E3134, timing gears. and possibly another (650 or 750) 9 stud top end, all advice, criticisms, and offers greatly appreciated, many thanks Chris


Chris, on a 360 degree twin a mag is perfect. A well reconditioned mag works very well on a Triumph. Remember adding a fancy mag to a unit Triumph engine is considered an upgrade... So why not stick to a mag on your pre unit engine, good performance, good looks, battery free and very reliable.

Ref top end, IMHO there is no reason whatsoever to stick to 650 if your having to buy parts. The extra 100cc adds a lot of oomph and if balanced properly, adds no vibration. A lot of weight can be removed from stock pistons with care. You MUST get the whole crank, rod, piston assembly dynamically balanced. In the UK, Basset Down know more about this that anyone else.

Ref cams, it all depends on how you want to ride it. I actually like the spitfire profile cams, they produce really good power between 4,000 and 7,000. E3134s produce more low end and less top end. A good compromise, and considered the best all round fast road cams by many, are Norman Hyde's half race cams, they're kinda like E3134s but higher lift. Remember to carefully check valve to piston clearances when using none standard cams plus you may have to relieve the inside of the cases a little to allow room for the bigger lobes.

Getting compression ratio up on a Triumph can be a challenge with a stock head and stock pistons. A few US sellers offer nice forged pistons in various CR choices. Triples Rule offer very nice alloy barrels and forged pistons if yer wallet is fat enough.

You may also consider that with a little machining work, a Norton crank and rods fits into Triumph cases, if used with a T140 top end even the piston deck height lines up perfectly. Depending on the overbore size used this can give up to 840cc.

But thats perhaps a little hard core! If you over tune a pre unit, the cases will split through the drive side main bearing. This is easy to strengthen though and to add an oil seal to allow use of a dry belt. But with this strengthened, the timing side case will break through the cam bush holes!

My advice would be a well balanced 750, Hyde cams, good magneto, 32mm concentrics if you want a period look, 34mm mk11 carbs if you want better oomph, Mikuni carbs if you wanna be flash.

Here's one I built and raced for 3-4 years in BHR racing before replacing it with a Noursh powered racer and putting it on the road, 840cc and 74BHP at the rear wheel, not slow...

Lightweight Dresda made Manx lookalike frame but built around a unit motor proportions:
Image

Carbs were 34mm smoothbores which added a little power and mid range. Morgo barrels with special sleeves to allow +60 T140 pistons + squished head (by Dresda) = nearly 11:1CR that ran fine on pump petrol:
Image

Timing side shot of motor:
Image

Theatrical front brake!
Image
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
Fast Eddie
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 3517
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:48 am
Location: Oxford, England

Re: advice needed

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:54 am

chrisf1 wrote:I intend to go with electronic ignition a new alternator (which one ??) as the one on it is suspect the red ignition light stays on when the engine is running ???


Triumph twins never had a charge warning 'ignition' light as standard.

On mid '60s Triumph twins, the (red) ignition light was precisely that, an 'ignition ON' warning light which remained on for as long as the ignition was switched on.

From 1969, the red light then became an 'oil pressure' warning light, triggered by an oil pressure switch fitted to the front of the timing cover.
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
L.A.B.
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 12173
View Photo Album - Images: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:41 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: advice needed

Postby chrisf1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:48 am

Thanks for the replies what a lovely job Fast Eddie but I think I would be too old to start or ride it if I went to the lengths you have on yours and there is the pocket restraints to consider which could make it take even longer I really want to finish this for the coming summer
Lab I was considering a magneto but feel they just do not justify the money they are now commanding, electronic offers a better more accurate and reliable spark or so I am told and also I would want auto advance and retard (I think Bill Gates would balk at those prices) and again the pocket will not stretch that far but can I do what I am suggesting without a battery and that is nice to know about the ignition light
Many thanks again for your replies Chris

chrisf1
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 am

Re: advice needed

Postby L.A.B. » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:13 am

chrisf1 wrote:I was considering a magneto but feel they just do not justify the money they are now commanding, electronic offers a better more accurate and reliable spark or so I am told and also I would want auto advance and retard (I think Bill Gates would balk at those prices) and again the pocket will not stretch that far but can I do what I am suggesting without a battery and that is nice to know about the ignition light


There are various 'electronic' distributor or magneto conversion/replacement kits available-but whether a particular system works without a battery I couldn't say, and is probably something you'd have to discuss with the supplier.

http://www.sussexmotorcycles.com/thorsp ... nlineshop/
http://www.thunderbirdspares.com/electr ... 1093-p.asp
http://www.rexs-speedshop.com/Complete- ... cement-Set
http://www.kirbyrowbotham.com/ignitions.php?page=8
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
L.A.B.
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 12173
View Photo Album - Images: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:41 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: advice needed

Postby chrisf1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:50 am

Thanks again L.A.B. I have emailed thunderbird spares awaiting reply about running without a battery Chris

chrisf1
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 am

Re: advice needed

Postby chrisf1 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:38 am

Hi again everyone I have been trying to locate a Morgo big bore kit in the UK and nobody seems to have one even Morgo are out of stock can anyone help thanks Chris

chrisf1
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 am

Re: advice needed

Postby Fast Eddie » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:33 am

[quote="chrisf1"]Hi again everyone I have been trying to locate a Morgo big bore kit in the UK and nobody seems to have one even Morgo are out of stock can anyone help thanks Chris[/quote

Here yer go:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-boniv ... Sw~bFWOf9X

Not Morgo, but nice:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aerco-TRIUMPH ... xy69JTEpy4

But on balance... brand new, trusted and well known seller, in UK... I'd go for these:
http://britishbikebits.com/routt-big-bo ... mwTbcsgGSN

And I'd stay well away from these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Trito ... SwpDdVRoYJ
User avatar
Access Norton VIP Paying Member
Fast Eddie
VIP MEMBER
Posts: 3517
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:48 am
Location: Oxford, England

Re: advice needed

Postby chrisf1 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:22 am

I am a complete numpty I have been searching ebay and all I found was in the states I have made an offer on the first set lets see what happens thanks very much

chrisf1
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 am

Re: advice needed

Postby chrisf1 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:28 pm

Lost the first set so I will go for the new set just don't tell the wife

chrisf1
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 am


Return to Triton

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests