1963 Norton Featherbed Build

Discussion in 'Triton' started by paul cardy, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Hi

    I seem to have arrived here by a rather circular route, so bear with me if this goes a bit off subject.... I am currently racing a R69 BMW airhead in the UK National Sprint Association & the Sultans of Sprint European drag race events and when the bike is not being raced we take it to various events to meet people and see their bikes. Recently Sammy Miller had its once a year open day with lovely weather planned we loaded up the bike ( its called Velocity Baby ) when we arrived we were asked to display the bike in the courtyard in between the Manx Nortons, Brough Superiors, Biannci, BMW Rennsports and a whole gathering of loveliness. Got talking to a guy called Les Patterson with a bike could Superior who told me all about the 6 Salt Flats records he holds and some of the issues with running a bike on salt - lets just say it was on my bucket list but not so sure it is any more. So while we were taking in the bikes and soaking up a cuppa I bump into 3 guys who used to be members of a bike club my dad used to be a member of, one of the bikes was for sale and it turned out that there was also a almost complete bike in parts also for sale....You know where this is going.

    Pete the owner of both bikes and bits gave me his address and on the way home I thought it would be rude not to go and check it out, the bike was in bits, 650 engine, 19 Borranni rimed wheels some nice stuff so I left with a head full of plans. I was lucky enough to have been asked to display Velocity at the "Bike Shed" custom bike show in London this year so it was also time to think about a new bike build with maybe the potential to have something worthy of another shot in 2018. So this current collection of bits would need to be turned into something left of centre or at least that's the plan.
    Anyway back to Pete and the bike, I first asked if it could come sans engine - Yes, then after a lot more research I wanted to go with just the frame and a race faring and start the whole thing from scratch... Pete could I just buy the frame and fairing - err NO. so began a bit of a long and protracted back and forth but ended we me as the proud owner of a Featherbed frame + swingarm V5 & race fairing - Epic.

    So far its been unloaded from my van and the photos I am hoping to attach taken on the sunny Saturday just gone. I have never owned a Norton / Triumph or for that matter an BMW until we built Velocity, so this is going to be an adventure. I have spent almost every Saturday for the last 5 years building bikes with my Dad ( Pete) and were planning on making this another 1 to add to the BMW and the Harley Ironhead Boardtracker.

    If your still reading thanks for taking the time, not all the posts will be this long winded but we have a deadline of next May so we better get a wiggle on.... err photos to follow then........
     
  2. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
  3. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Sorry not that good without pictures but the photobucket £399 price tag is never going to happen..

    Took a visit to Andover Norton couple of weeks ago as they local to me, nice bunch and sure they will come in handy at some point in the project.

    Not done much but spend money so far the tail of the tape is as follows:-

    Triumph 810cc engine and 5 speed gearbox, belt drive primary, Amal carbs and a host of other go fast goodies - came complete with engine plates which will be one of the first jobs to fit up the engine in the frame and see how it lines up.
    New Gremica 230mm 4L/S front brake
    New Borrini 18 front rim - Rear out of stock hopefully in by September...
    New twin pull front brake lever
    Conical Triumph rear hub - needs a mechanical refurb but looks to be in good condition.

    Couple of calls planned for this week - new Cerini 36mm front forks and billet yokes - new race fairing and some parts for the rear hub hopefully have some things to be getting on with this weekend.......

    should keep me busy for a couple of weeks
     
  4. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Well-Known Member VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,867
    The 810cc Triumph engine will have a Norton crank I assume?

    This combo can make for a very nice set up.

    Do you know what type and size of Amals you have? What cams are in it? And what has been done to the head?
     
  5. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Hi Tony

    This is a list of the spec
    TRIUMPH 810CC TRITON ENGINE 5 SPEED GEARBOX , BELT DRIVE CONVERSION.
    TRIUMPH 6T PRE UNIT CRANKCASES, NORTON CRANK CONVERSION BALANCED BY FRED COOPER AND POLISHED, NEW BIG ENDS, THE TIMING GEARS HAVE BEEN LIGHTENED, TONY HAYWARDS BELT DRIVE CONVERSION.
    NEW CLUTCH FITTED WITH RACE SPRINGS.
    390 SIFTON RACING CAMS ALSO NEW CAM BUSHES.
    REBUILT K2F MAGNETO
    THE CYLINDER HEAD HAS BEEN REWORKED AND BORED OUT TO 33MM INLETS, FITTED AND FED BY AMAL MK11 CONCENTRIC CARBS.
    RACING VALVE SPRINGS, NEW GUIDES, BLACK DIAMOND VALVES, NEW VALVE TOP AND BOTTOMS..
    TRIUMPH 5 SPEED GEARBOX, NEW CONVERTA EQUIP ENGINE PLATES.
     
  6. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Well-Known Member VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,867
    Nice, if you have decent CR that should be good for around 70 rwhp and loads of grunt!

    Should be a fun bike!
     
  7. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Thanks Eddie

    I am hoping the engine will work out and 70HP would be nice If I also pay attention to weight.

    I have been posting pictures of the start of the build on FB still not sorted out a photo storage site that does not want paying....
    So over the weekend I trial fitted the engine which looks to be ok in that the bolts line up need to wait and see once I have a rear wheel..

    The billet yokes and GP forks look to be really nice quality and having offered up the brake drum this fits between the lags which was a bit of a worry but will need a new spindle which we may make but spacers will be needed. The brake stays which were supplied with the drum wont work with the forks so I will put these up for sale and make some new ones to suit.
    The original faring will also be put up for sale as I wanted a different look fairing so this will also will be up for sale.

    Looks like the swingarm has rubberised bushes that may be ok but want to replace these with some bronze bushes but that's going to have to wait for a bit.

    The petrol tank which was made for another make bike is a very good fit and is my best find so far and although it needs a bit of a tweak to be a perfect fit looks really nice.

    The front rim arrived over the weekend so will be measuring up for some spokes so I can build the wheel and get the front end complete - need road legal tyres as this bike is going to be dual purpose so looking for some track day tyres if such a thing exists for a 18 tube tyre ? recommendations please.
     
  8. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie Well-Known Member VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,867
  9. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Thanks Eddie on the tyres

    So been busy trial fitting the engine it came with new engine plates and these seem to line up nicely - need to do chain alignment but that will have to wait till I have a rear wheel rim.
    Bought some ali plate to make a head steady and the stainless steel bends to start fabricating the exhaust.
    Had a touch when I found a spare series 5 front spindle left over from my BWM Drag Bike build which is the correct dia for both hub and the 2 sizes in the forks - not checked it for length yet but hoping the next time I build up the forks we could be in clover.
    Looking at building the front wheel and checked out google images to find how the front hub is laced up - normally go with Central Wheel Services for spokes but with the spoke configuration I have seen the spoke which lays over the outer edge of the hub and has to turn into the middle ( if that makes sense ) looks to need a different set of dimensions to get this correct from the spokes that would run on the inside- not what I expected and need to get some advice but as the whole thing is non standard that may be tricky - oh the challenges.
    I am selling a few sundries off to recoup some funds and need to kick this forward now I have plenty of bits to play with....
     
  10. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Bit of an update

    Front wheel is off with a local wheel builder to be laced up rim and has had the satin black treatment, having looked into buying spokes to my design it looked easier to give it built professional, full report when its done.

    The conical hub has been given the lightening treatment with holes in the side and is sitting on the desk beside me awaiting a full rebuild with new bearing, shoes and various other sundries which were missing from the brake plate , these new parts have come from LP Williams who seem to be user friendly. Rear Rim is still not yet available from the same source as the front so will need to be patient but very keen to get this thing on 2 wheels so I can look into the exhaust build.
     
  11. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,010
    The Alloy cronical hub , is said to be a copy of the magnesium Manx one, Anyway .

    Ssome suckers are suchered that they ARE Manx. Theres fancy brake plates about .

    If you want to blow off the hondas , the Non Q D pre chroic axle is Ten Times as STRONG .
    I drilled the spacer to suit it , having a machine shop in the pocket , at the time .
    Tho mayve been a Rural Gas Station. Come to think of it .

    Id used the stiffer 68 Tri 650 Swing arm in my Triton . With the Brass Bush .

    Most ' Ton Downt By-pass' ers used replacement solid bushes rather than the silentblock flexi one ,
    if the didnt have a Manx, which does , too .


    Side Chair Featherbeds used 16 in alloy rims .

    A wide 17 or 18 might get less extortionate tyres avaliable .
     
  12. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Hi Matt

    Not sure I am with you on the axle ?
    Just to change things up I will be fabricating my own swing arm which will also allow a wider tyre as part of the design, this will have nylatron swing arm pivot bushes and a hollow pivot shaft. I am commited to 18 rims so will need to sort something out. I have seen a few spoke wheels which have had the mastic treatment and running a tubeless tyre sans tube never tried this but guess it may be worth a try.
    The head steady has been fabricated and is doing double duty as a tank front mount, the exhaust is also taking shape using SS tubing were going for a 2 into 1 system, the front pipes and merge are now all welded up so the final section needs to be turned from ideas into metal. If you want to check out progress with pictures here is a link to my FB site https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100013406987711.
     
  13. Matt Spencer

    Matt Spencer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,010
    The Axle I used mayve been a 68 , NON Q-D 650 one . As in a ONE PIECE Axle : rather than the type that leaves the brake drum on the swing arm with the wheel out .
    as in the Axle from the Bolt On Brake Drum rear Wheel , likely from 37 on .

    The Conical Hob Bearings , the Std Spacer plugs into them , at a reduced diameter , on the ends .

    The Replacement Axle is the same diameter , though the wheel , as the bearing I.D. ,

    Thus I put a drill through the Conical Spacer at that ( bearing i.d. ) diameter , as expediant ..

    The Non Q. D. axle , in your hand , is a good deal meatier , Twice the mass ( Strength ) and is a quality item ,
    whereas a few rear axles look like theyre from the coach bolt shop .

    ALSO the Thread is a LOT Finer , so you can tighten the larger axle nuts far more securely , Stiffening the whole rear assembly .

    ( they ) Use Std Triumph chain Adjusters . Drawback is you have to hinge the rear mudguard up , to remove the rear wheel , on a ridgid Speed twin or Thunderbird .
    As I Doubt your guard will foul , Id think the whole cabbodle would slip straight out aft .
    You of course could do custom adjusters , but remembering , less components = less joins . The More joins/ laminations / washers etc , the less secure .

    With it as described , there are few , , so max stability on two counts , 1`, secure location . 2, No Axle Flex .
     
  14. acotrel

    acotrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,104
    I noticed in your original post, you mentioned that you do not race the bike. A friend of mine said to me 'at least your bike looks right'. The simple fact is that it is what it has to be when I race it. There is an old saying 'racing improves the breed'. When you build a bike, it's function dictates the direction you take.
     
  15. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Hi Acotrel

    Don't worry its going to be raced or tracked, my long term plan it to take it to the Montlhery Café racer festival next year if I get it completed, raced the R69 in this years event in the drag race and had a great time and the guys on the bank circuit looked to be having a good time also.
     
  16. acotrel

    acotrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,104
    When you first race it, a lot of bits will probably break and fall off your bike. After you have fixed all of those problems, your bike will probably become excellent. I raced regularly for about 12 years when I was a kid. Even now I still have unexpected problems when I race my bike. You never know what they are going to be until you stress the bike by using it in anger.
     
  17. acotrel

    acotrel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    6,104
    What I am trying to say to you, is that when you build a bike, you do a lot which is based upon supposition. When you actually put the machine to it's intended end use, what you find is that the theory doesn't necessarily fit what happens in practice. Some people say that 'if it looks right, it probably IS right'. However in practice a bike probably only looks right because it has been developed to become right. The first time your ride a newly built bike is the most dangerous, especially if people other than yourself have been involved. On this forum, I've seen several bikes with modifications I would not have on my own bike. I have been bitten too many times by my own stupidity and some things are very obvious to me. I think you mentioned using a BMW. I was once offered a Guzzi 750 which had been involved in a fatal due to the unusual torque reaction. Nothing is ever straight-forward. It ways pays to 'make haste slowly'.
     
  18. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Progress is slow but were still moving forward , were not using a normal Cafe Racer tank but something a bit different and this has required some fabrication. We have used the head steady to double up as the front tank mount as the tank has internal cups and rubber mounts and then we have fabricated a tank plate to fill in the gap between the headstock and tank and this then doubles up as the external mount so we can retail the tank strap. Were keeping this as it will hold the rear of the tank in place and looks nice... The tank has been fabricated in aluminium but for another bike so this has required adjusting of the front portion, to match the frame tubes which if you have looked from the side curve up towards the head stock. This has been the first chance to use the new TIG welder bought specifically for aluminium, my last TIG welder was excellent but only offered the DC function. Its been a few years since I last welded aluminium but I was well chuffed with the results.
    The exhaust is also taking shape the front down tubes are all welded and the 2 into 1 merge pipe fabricated - really need to get this bike on 2 wheels to see how my leg is going to sit with the planned route to the back of the bike so we may park this part of the build for the time being. Front spoke wheel is awaiting spokes to turn up so should be ready for collection in the next week or so but currently no luck on a rear rim- the search continues.
    Any one got any thoughts on electronic ignition ? Engine currently has a refurbed Mag, the bike wont be running lights so would prefer to not have a battery, looked at a option to fit a kit in the end of the Mag to keep the look but with the modern workings or replacing the Mag for an Ali turned boss that fits in the same location - similar idea. Tri Spark kit is being offered by LP Williams ?
     
  19. paul cardy

    paul cardy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Quick update just jumped on Ebay and rear rim is now on its way :0
     

Share This Page