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650ss alloy barrels

Norton Models (not Commando or P11)

650ss alloy barrels

Postby Bernhard » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:42 am

Where Alloy barrels ever made for the Norton, 650SS :?:

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Mike B » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:55 am

Yes, Norman White used to sell them.

Mike B

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Matchless » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:59 am

The only problem with the Norman White aluminium barrels I could see, was they were/are based on the pre 1959 shape which matches the earlier Dominator head.
Martyn.

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby wilkey113 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:16 pm

I have a Norman White 650 alloy barrel and it fits the 650ss head just fine

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Matchless » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:18 am

Wilkey,
I wasn't suggesting they didn't fit, just that they have a different profile at the front. The earlier barrels have a large radiused profile in the centre at the front of the fins. The later barrels have a small vee. I can't understand why Norman did this as the majority of bikes of 600cc & all 650cc capacity have the later shape of barrel.
How have you found the alloy barrels in service; are they as quiet as the iron ones, & what are the like for oil consumption & leaks etc?
Martyn.

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby wilkey113 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:35 pm

Martyn,
I know exactly what you mean. I had a 600 cylinder once that was like that. The head would bolt on, but the profile at the front of the cylinder was different, so you couldn't screw in the exhaust nuts.
The Norman White cylinder I have, has the correct profile for a 650ss head.

He cast the cylinders to be bored & machined for 500, 600 or 650 Nortons. The casting even has the boss on the front, which could be machined to take the Dynamo strap for an early Dominator.

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Matchless » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:37 pm

Wilkey,
That's really good to know. A while ago I was looking for a set of 650 cylinders & the only thing putting me off Normans was the pictures on his website, which showed the earlier type. Serves me right for not calling him to check. Do they make any difference to engine noise/ oil consumption etc?

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby wilkey113 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:49 pm

I can't speak to engine noise or oil consumption because the bike isn't complete yet. Hopefully soon!

As for Norman White, he no longer makes the cylinders. I had called and spoken to him about 3 years ago to try and buy another, but he had none left, and told me that the shop which cast them, had changed ownership, and the molds were lost. So there's no plans on his side to make any more. Pretty sad news to be honest, as it's a nice bit of kit.

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Bernhard » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:56 am

Matchless wrote:Wilkey,
That's really good to know. A while ago I was looking for a set of 650 cylinders & the only thing putting me off Normans was the pictures on his website, which showed the earlier type. Serves me right for not calling him to check. Do they make any difference to engine noise/ oil consumption etc?


Sadly they were only made with the Dynamo strap fixing ;

http://www.imgrum.org/media/13964951614 ... _316949022

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby wilkey113 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:31 pm

Hey Bernhard,
That link you posted, is actually my post, and the photo, is the cylinder that I have. It's unused, but going on a bike that I'm building.
The boss for the dynamo strap was part of the casting, but only machined, if the cylinder was ordered for a dynamo model.

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Rohan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:32 pm

Thanks for that link Bernhard, for Wllkeys cylinder !
We note that wilkey hasn't posted it for our info....

It would be interesting to know where those throughbolts would go to,
the front 2 at least appear to be additional to the std cylinder head bolts.
So would they require additional bosses to be welded to the crankcases ?
And holes drilled through the cylinder fins ?

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby wilkey113 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:12 pm

The thru bolts go straight thru the standard holes and thread into the standard holes in the cases. Using Commando style thru bolts. Holes are machined thru the fins as standard from Norman White.
I imagine you don't have to use the thru bolts, and could go with the standard stud & nut fasteners. Norman White produced them this way, as to add rigidity to the cylinder once fitted.
Its a nice piece of kit, that's for sure. I'm looking forward to completing the bike, and then I'd be happy to report results. It'll likely be a bit as I've got 2 projects going simultaneously and on a working man's salary, these things get pricey to build.

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Rohan » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:36 pm

wilkey113 wrote:The thru bolts go straight thru the standard holes and thread into the standard holes in the cases. Using Commando style thru bolts.


How can that be ?
Have you tried this yet ?

I count a total of 12 bolt holes and through-bolt holes, versus 10 on a stock cylinder.
The 2 front through-bolts are where there is usually nothing, and nothing underneath on the crankcases ??

The studs down through the fins would be visible from the outside, so it won't look too stock.
That is preferable to the alloy cylinder separating around the flange, of course, as they do without throughbolts...

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby wilkey113 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:13 pm

I'm not sure exactly what you're counting. The Norman White cylinder, has all the standard threaded holes and thru bolt holes - total of 10 - same as a standard Norton cylinder. And then it has an additional 4 holes for the recessed thru bolts. Those 4 "Commando" type thru bolts, are positioned so they go thru all the fins, thru the standard cylinder base holes and would thread into the cases. Obviously you can't use the standard studs in the cases, if you use the thru bolts.

I've tried it this cylinder on my cases and with a head. No issues whatsoever.

If using the Commando type thru bolts, you are correct that the bolts would be visible and not stock looking. But there's literally nothing "stock" about the Norton I'm building. It's a 650ss motor with this Norman White cylinder and going into a Ray Petty roadster frame. I'm definitely not going for a stock set up on this build. It's all special, special brakes, GP carbs, clip ons, rear sets, swept back Dunstall exhaust, oil tank & gas tank are alloy and made by Lyta - special for the frame kit that Ray Petty sold.

Maybe the photo of the cylinder is somehow deceiving?

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Re: 650ss alloy barrels

Postby Rohan » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:32 pm

wilkey113 wrote:I'm not sure exactly what you're counting.


This one.
8 bolt holes and 4 through bolt holes by my count ? And 2 more if they are not oil drains....

Lets see if the pic posts.

Image

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