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1972 Roadster Rebuild

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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:03 am

These two?
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1972 Norton Roadster Combat
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:24 am

Now with further operation of the kick start, it is binding again. Removed the cover and the kick start shaft operates just fine.

grandpaul, I'm just trial fitting the outer cover without any of the parts that go inside it, and no hold down screws yet.

As best I can tell it is the oil seal that is somehow the problem. I think the bushing would be leaving marks on the kick start shaft if it was binding on that. I'm tempted to remove the oil seal, and see if it works normally then.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:35 am

Yes, remove the seal and see if that "fixes" it.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby gortnipper » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:19 pm

It might be that the kickstart shaft inner bush is not fully seated. Check to see that it is, as mine was not and it totally bound the tranny when the outer cover was installed.

I took the KS shaft in to an engineering shop near me that does a lot of frame work for Beezers here, and he pressed the bushing in using the old bush as a drift. It gave a bit of resistance and then pressed in to 12.6 mm deep - bang on half an inch.

Assembled and shimmed to .005 - all good.

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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:18 pm

Sorry, I've been dealing with a much loved 150 or so year old huge sugar maple that blew down yesterday, and knocked me off line for a day, but have been thinking gearbox a little. I'm now considering pulling the dowel pin that is nearest the kick start shaft instead of the seal, to see how it works then. Any thoughts about that? As far as the bushing goes, the outer cover came fully assembled from Andover Norton, if you can trust them. I'll measure it when I have a chance.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:12 pm

I just barely got back to the gearbox today, when I noticed the two tapped holes for the small inspection cover on the new outer cover were machined out of position, and the gasket surface wasn't properly cleaned up. So I have emailed Andover Norton about exchanging the outer cover. I also mentioned that I was having an issue with the kick start shaft binding up when trial assembling the outer cover to the inner cover assembly, and I suggested that there might also be a problem with the location relationship between the two dowel pin holes and the kick start shaft hole.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby cjandme » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:11 pm

pantah_good wrote:...... when I noticed the two tapped holes for the small inspection cover on the new outer cover were machined out of position, and the gasket surface wasn't properly cleaned up......

Bummer :(
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:34 pm

Maybe this has a silver lining. Ashley at Andover told me to send it back, and agreed that there might be a possibility that the dowel pin holes and kick start shaft hole may be a little off too. Posted it off to Portway West Business Park today.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby dynodave » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:59 pm

pantah_good wrote:Maybe this has a silver lining. Ashley at Andover told me to send it back, and agreed that there might be a possibility that the dowel pin holes and kick start shaft hole may be a little off too. Posted it off to Portway West Business Park today.



Parts out of wack? I'm shocked..no not really

I spent about $500 buck with AN a week ago. :roll:
unfortunately there is a break down in an organization that seems to fall short of the mark...
Why you can't buy it from a US dealer for a fair price is the crux of the problem. oh well.
Why you can't return it to a AN dealer in the US is the crux of the business break down.
Why I have an item (2 ea) out of a $500 order that should go back ($$$ wasted) to England or be "fettled" to make them fit is IMO a business failure of monumental proportion.

My first years of college included quality control as part of a mechanical production engineer curriculum at Hartford State Tech in Connecticut. Nixon draft and vietnam put an end to that for me :(

QC Measurement and statistical analysis at the manufacturer and by incoming inspection to AN according to your "original factory specs and drawing" Then my studs would fit !!!! and the 26CEI nuts would actually be able to screw on the studs. :roll:

Compared to the original norton factory part, the AN parts failed in 4 specs/dimensions, the equivalent Norvil parts failed in only 2

To be fair I was satisfied with the bulk of the parts from AN and I am also usually satisfied with the majority of norvil's parts
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby elefantrider » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:03 am

https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/pirate-parts/

Does AN have a dedicated quality person? I could not find one on their website.
What Quality Management System do they subscribe/adhere to?
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:34 am

"We give tools and information out to our qualified specialist suppliers who then manufacture our parts to our specifications. On arrival in the warehouse these components go through inspection, and if and when they are found to be in order they are put into stock."

That's about all I can find on the AN website about in house inspection, which has to be huge job considering the number of different parts they offer, and what must be a large number different suppliers probably located elsewhere in the world. Some parts that should be caught will inevitably slip thru. More thorough in house inspection would raise their selling prices. I needed to replace a bunch of parts on this gearbox rebuild, and they all would have been tough to afford without the recent dollar to pound exchange rate and ordering them straight from AN in the UK. I hated not supporting Old Britts for the same parts. This is the first of many AN parts I've purchased from both sources for this bike so far that has been incorrectly machined, that I'm aware of. I'm not going to jump on AN about this outer cover, but will be a little more critical of any new parts from now on.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:12 pm

The replacement outer cover from A-N finally arrived today. Did a quick check and the kick start shaft has no apparent binding and travels full stroke and springs back freely - yay! The gearbox reassembly is back underway.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby cjandme » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:11 pm

pantah_good wrote:The replacement outer cover from A-N finally arrived today. Did a quick check and the kick start shaft has no apparent binding and travels full stroke and springs back freely - yay! The gearbox reassembly is back underway.

Well that is good news. Congratulations- keep the posts coming (I'm really bored out here in Iraq) :D
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby dynodave » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:15 pm

elefantrider wrote:https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/pirate-parts/
Does AN have a dedicated quality person? I could not find one on their website.
What Quality Management System do they subscribe/adhere to?

A trained manufacturing engineer has QC methodology as part of the curriculum. If he's worth his salt you don't need ISO2001 or the like to still make good parts. As part of self preservation, even if they don't make/manufacture anything AN should have one on staff, possibly warehouse manager or parts buyer/contracting to oversee product processing.

pantah_good wrote:The replacement outer cover from A-N finally arrived today. Did a quick check and the kick start shaft has no apparent binding and travels full stroke and springs back freely - yay! The gearbox reassembly is back underway.


Today I sent a note to AN about the bad parts I got. I will fix the problems here, but I thought they would like to know. Bought anther $400 of ANIL stuff today since I am doing 4 gearboxes of my own and one for a NENO club guy that is not able to do it himself and also putting in a belt drive for him too. Did a lot of gearbox research and was not previously aware I own 23 of them...LOL
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:03 pm

cjandme wrote:I'm really bored out here in Iraq

Jeez, isn't that a good thing in a combat zone?

While waiting on shipping, I pretended I was doing something really constructive by online shopping. This also came today, my new clutch lever. I know it isn't period correct on a Commando, but these Doherty levers bring back such sweet 1960's Triumph and BSA British memories I couldn't resist. And it may help to balance out, period wise, the Magura 11mm radial brake master I have for the other side.
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