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1972 Roadster Rebuild

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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:54 am

pantah_good wrote:Fred says shoot for .005" end play. I have .016" (X) end play with a .020" gasket not installed. Are you saying 016 - .020 = -.004

I need a minus .004" shim? I'm still confused.

You need a thinner gasket!
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:31 am

Sorry, I still can't get a mental picture of why that would be. I was going to try assembling it with the gasket to see what happens. But first, are thinner gaskets available or is that a do it yourself project? Or is there another fix - I'm just not seeing what's going on?
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:29 am

I would try assembling everything you have on-hand, as-is.

If your gasket is a thick composite "cardboard" like piece, yes, a flat paper gasket is much thinner, but less forgiving of marred gasket faces.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:33 am

The gasket is the standard green one that came in the Old Britts gasket kit. I am wondering about the new (from Old Britts) 06-7710 layshaft roller bearing. The inner race was just a little snug on the layshaft. I could move it by hand though. And I'm also wondering if the outer race was fully home and bottomed out when I installed it in the shell. Could either of those be reducing the end play I'm measuring? And also the kick start shaft is brand new from AN. I might as well pull it apart and check all that stuff, and then assemble again, as you say, with everything on hand including the gasket. I was hoping to order shim(s) and get them by the end of the week.

Edit - the gasket is tan or light brown, originally from AN.
1972 Norton Commando
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:03 pm

You should have heated the gearbox shell and chilled the outer race, and it should have dropped in flat on the bottom.

The bearing with inner race should be a light press (or tap) fit on a thoroughly clean layshaft (I typically polish them with fine grade emory paper).

Yes, those interference fits, and the kicker gear body, can take up some of the available end float space if not FULLY home.

I would caution AGAINST tapping on the layshaft to get the inner bearing's outer race to seat more fully...
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:43 pm

Ok, made sure the layshaft bearing outer race was fully seated, freed up the inner race on the layshaft just a tiny bit more, and reassembled everything again, but this time with the gasket. As I had originally thought would happen with the gasket in place, the end play on the kickstart shaft increased to .035", so I believe I should be looking to add .025" to .030" of shim. Quickly got a small assortment of shims on order from Old Britts.

Grandpaul: yes, that was the way I originally put the bearing outer race in. This time I just double checked that it was all the way seated with a larger socket against the o.d. with a 1/2" drive extension, against a block of wood with both shafts removed. I don't understand how we differ on calling it adding or subtracting for the gasket, but does .025" to .030" of shim sound correct to you at this point?
Bill
1972 Norton Commando
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:26 pm

Yes, if your end play is at .035 and you add a .030 shim, you'll end up with .005 free play.

I see now I was thinking incorrectly in my reply. You were on the right track all along. For some reason, I was thinking of shimming inside the inner cover.

Sorry.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:03 pm

Please, absolutely no need to be sorry. I have huge respect for your input, and you forced me to go back over what I did, and I'm very happy to have done that. I always have to second and third guess my work and understanding of instructions because of some dyslexia issues. So, at least for the moment, I'm feeling pretty o.k. about my first gearbox tear-down.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:55 pm

You can feel even better if it shifts properly!
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:42 pm

.025" of shims installed, end play now .006". If this is proceeding too fast for anyone, raise your hand.
1972 Norton Commando
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:33 pm

I think .006 is okay.
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:35 pm

The gearbox rebuild has me hung up again. I'm at the point of trial fitting a new outer cover onto the installed inner cover with a new kick start shaft in place, prior to installing the clutch operating lever. The outer cover assembly is a new Andover Norton p/n 06.0740 with a new kick start shaft bushing and MK3 type seal already installed (as well as the MK3 type gearchange shaft seal and bushing already installed). The outer cover gets to within about a 1/4 inch from full on and then starts binding up on the kick start shaft and the two dowel pins. It gets tight enough on the kick start shaft that the spring can't return it back to its starting position. The dowels are both easy fits (separately) into their holes, and the shaft fits into the seal and bushing nicely. The kick start shaft works freely by itself. I lubed the shaft and seal/bushing, partially installed the cover, and cycled the kick start shaft with the kick start lever a number of times, but it is still binding. I'm afraid if I tap the outer cover fully on, I'll never be able to remove it without destroying the gasket surfaces on both covers. I got a new outer cover because my old pre-MK3 cover was badly scuffed up and a new AN cover was fully assembled to MK3 specs as well as being beautifully polished, for a very attractive exchange rate price. I got a new kick start shaft because the old shaft's spline was destroyed. Is there anything I can do to free everything up? Should I permanently remove one of the dowel pins? I can't just drive the cover fully on at final assembly and count on normal kick starting operation for a few years to free everything up before I need to pull the cover off again, but can't think of a way to fix things.
Bill
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1972 Norton Commando
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:16 am

Well, I couldn't think of anything else to do except put the cover on with about a 1/16" gap, oil the bushing and seal again, put the kick start lever on, and just exercise it back and forth full travel to see if things freed up. After about 5 minutes and a some warm rubber smell, it did start working more normally with the spring returning the lever back. So I guess I'll continue with assembling all the parts under the outer cover, and button it up (hopefully for good).
1972 Norton Commando
1974 BMW R90S
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1988 Ducati 851 (Ex-Adamo Race)
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby grandpaul » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:42 am

Not a good idea.

SOMETHING needs to be corrected or there is the possibility of further issues, and even significant damage to the gearbox.

You're sure the shifter peg is inserted into the steel roller with the hole in it?
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Re: 1972 Roadster Rebuild

Postby pantah_good » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:57 am

grandpaul wrote:You're sure the shifter peg is inserted into the steel roller with the hole in it?

Not sure which parts you mean?
1972 Norton Commando
1974 BMW R90S
1983 Harris Ducati TT (Race)
1988 Ducati 851 (Ex-Adamo Race)
1997 Ducati 748/853
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